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 Post subject: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:08 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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Heidegger: Everything is functioning. That is
precisely what is awesome, that everything
functions, that the functioning propels
everything more and more toward further
functioning, and that technicity increasingly
dislodges man and uproots him from the earth. I
don't know if you were shocked, but [certainly] I
was shocked when a short time ago I saw the
pictures of the earth taken from the moon. We
do not need atomic bombs at all [to uproot us] --
the uprooting of man is already here. All our
relationships have become merely technical
ones. It is no longer upon an earth that man lives...
http://www.ditext.com/heidegger/interview.html

What does this mean?

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:07 pm 
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:popcorn

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:10 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
:popcorn

:popcorn :popcorn


I've never read Heidegger and I intend to keep it that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:27 am 
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Need context to get clear.

Most likely, he's saying something like that our modern world has undermined our normal way of being and introduced a new, unrooted, technically-charged way of being with an exclusive emphasis on efficiency (functioning--how things work, not what they are). Heidegger seems to think stuff like that. He ain't wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:21 pm 
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The link is in the op. How are photos from the moon relevant to this?

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:09 pm 
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Turns the earth into an object rather than a home? Makes it more easily exploitable?

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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:59 pm 
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Thank you.
I've found your views on industrialization and the related social and environmental topics etc very interesting. I'll read Scruton's How to think seriously about the planet. Is there any other book you recommend on this?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:33 am 
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You're asking a professor for a reading list. That is a dangerous game. I'll bold the ones that I would particularly emphasize in terms of what I'd say are the most important books to start with.

The greatest book I have read on these matters is The Sun of Justice by Harold Robbins.

If you want to start close to home, read Vandana Shiva's Who Really Feeds the World.

For Americans maybe best place to start, to my mind, is Wendell Berry's The Unsettling of America. This can of course be read and appreciated by non-Americans, too, but it will have special resonance for us here. For those with limited budgets, you can find the text of his recent Jefferson lecture online--I'm not endorsing this whole website, just linking to Berry's text! Once again, Berry, as a localist, is writing as and largely for Americans.

Fathers Ligutti and Rawe wrote a book in, I think, the 40's or 50's called Rural Roads to Security. Very good stuff from the latter stages of the American Catholic Land Movement.

The Catholic Land Movement is intimately connected with the Distributists, and you can get some of the flavor of Distributism from the great trilogy by Belloc, consisting of The Servile State, Economics for Helen, and An Essay on the Restoration of Property.

EF Schumacher, Small is Beautiful
Neil Postman, Technopoly
Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

Patrick Deneen, Why Liberalism Failed
Ananda Coomaraswamy, Christian and Oriental Philosophy of Art (this is a book, but the link goes only to the title essay)
Karl Polanyi, The Great Transformation
Harry Braverman, Labor and Monopoly Capital Braverman was a commie, admittedly, and of course that means his positive views are abhorrent. But this book is largely history and criticism, and it is absolutely stunning stuff. I can't recommend it highly enough. If you read it in conjunction with Huxley, in particular, it'll smack you in the face. Postman is relevant, too.

And lots of stuff by Chesterton, who is not super great when it comes to really clear statements like Belloc's Essay or whatnot, but is supremely great at painting the general picture. As far as fiction goes, his most Distributist works are probably Napoleon of Notting Hill, Return of Don Quixote, The Man Who Knew Too Much, and Tales of the Long Bow. Maybe the Poet and the Lunatics--it's been a long time now since I read it and I can't remember much about it. But it's from a strong Distributist period. For non-fiction, his best work on Distributism is probably The Outline of Sanity, though What's Wrong With the World is better-known. Utopia of Usurers and Eugenics and Other Evils are also good and for various reasons I like What I saw in America, too. I would not say it's a Distributist work, exactly. Also, it probably means more to me as an American than it might to a non-American.

Chesterton and Belloc write as Englishmen in the same way that Berry writes as an American. But then the experience of modern Indians is inseparable from English imperialism, so the English stuff (perhaps especially since Belloc and Chesterton were anti-imperialists) might feel less foreign to you than American stuff. I don't know.

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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:08 am 
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Thank you for the recommendations, I'll check them out.

What sparked my interest was your comment on factory farming recently. I had not heard of that term and don't know why it is wrong. So I'm looking for things that explain why these things are wrong, and more generally, on the effects of modern industry on the family, society and environment/ecology. I'm not looking for fiction, and economics is not my area of interest. I'll hunt for where I can find these books for free.

_________________
"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:17 am 
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gherkin wrote:
You're asking a professor for a reading list. That is a dangerous game. I'll bold the ones that I would particularly emphasize in terms of what I'd say are the most important books to start with.

The greatest book I have read on these matters is The Sun of Justice by Harold Robbins.

If you want to start close to home, read Vandana Shiva's Who Really Feeds the World.

For Americans maybe best place to start, to my mind, is Wendell Berry's The Unsettling of America. This can of course be read and appreciated by non-Americans, too, but it will have special resonance for us here. For those with limited budgets, you can find the text of his recent Jefferson lecture online--I'm not endorsing this whole website, just linking to Berry's text! Once again, Berry, as a localist, is writing as and largely for Americans.

Fathers Ligutti and Rawe wrote a book in, I think, the 40's or 50's called Rural Roads to Security. Very good stuff from the latter stages of the American Catholic Land Movement.

The Catholic Land Movement is intimately connected with the Distributists, and you can get some of the flavor of Distributism from the great trilogy by Belloc, consisting of The Servile State, Economics for Helen, and An Essay on the Restoration of Property.

EF Schumacher, Small is Beautiful
Neil Postman, Technopoly
Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

Patrick Deneen, Why Liberalism Failed
Ananda Coomaraswamy, Christian and Oriental Philosophy of Art (this is a book, but the link goes only to the title essay)
Karl Polanyi, The Great Transformation
Harry Braverman, Labor and Monopoly Capital Braverman was a commie, admittedly, and of course that means his positive views are abhorrent. But this book is largely history and criticism, and it is absolutely stunning stuff. I can't recommend it highly enough. If you read it in conjunction with Huxley, in particular, it'll smack you in the face. Postman is relevant, too.

And lots of stuff by Chesterton, who is not super great when it comes to really clear statements like Belloc's Essay or whatnot, but is supremely great at painting the general picture. As far as fiction goes, his most Distributist works are probably Napoleon of Notting Hill, Return of Don Quixote, The Man Who Knew Too Much, and Tales of the Long Bow. Maybe the Poet and the Lunatics--it's been a long time now since I read it and I can't remember much about it. But it's from a strong Distributist period. For non-fiction, his best work on Distributism is probably The Outline of Sanity, though What's Wrong With the World is better-known. Utopia of Usurers and Eugenics and Other Evils are also good and for various reasons I like What I saw in America, too. I would not say it's a Distributist work, exactly. Also, it probably means more to me as an American than it might to a non-American.

Chesterton and Belloc write as Englishmen in the same way that Berry writes as an American. But then the experience of modern Indians is inseparable from English imperialism, so the English stuff (perhaps especially since Belloc and Chesterton were anti-imperialists) might feel less foreign to you than American stuff. I don't know.


Chesterton's book on William Cobbett is enthusiastic, if not clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:10 pm 
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Yes. Is it unclear? It's been awhile. I liked it. All of his "biographical" works are unclear, insofar as he doesn't much bother with actually providing a narration of the subject's life and times. But the can be great reading nonetheless. I'm particularly keen on Blake and Watts. And Dickens, obviously. I leave aside St. Thomas Aquinas because it transcends categorization.

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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:11 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Thank you for the recommendations, I'll check them out.

What sparked my interest was your comment on factory farming recently. I had not heard of that term and don't know why it is wrong. So I'm looking for things that explain why these things are wrong, and more generally, on the effects of modern industry on the family, society and environment/ecology. I'm not looking for fiction, and economics is not my area of interest. I'll hunt for where I can find these books for free.

Fiction makes the abstract concrete. It can be very important intellectually.

This stuff is all shot through with economics. It can't be avoided. But don't conflate economics with the modern desiccated notion of economics as a purely quantitative social 'science'.

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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:07 pm 
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"All of his "biographical" works are unclear, insofar as he doesn't much bother with actually providing a narration of the subject's life and times. But the can be great reading nonetheless."

Indeed.

I read Chesterton because I like Chesterton, not because I agree with all his positions. Same with Belloc

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Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:23 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Heidegger: Everything is functioning. That is
precisely what is awesome, that everything
functions, that the functioning propels
everything more and more toward further
functioning, and that technicity increasingly
dislodges man and uproots him from the earth. I
don't know if you were shocked, but [certainly] I
was shocked when a short time ago I saw the
pictures of the earth taken from the moon. We
do not need atomic bombs at all [to uproot us] --
the uprooting of man is already here. All our
relationships have become merely technical
ones. It is no longer upon an earth that man lives...
http://www.ditext.com/heidegger/interview.html

What does this mean?



This is a topic that Heidigger develops in his essay "Age of the World Picture" . The point is, is that man has now pictured reality and being, rather than residing within the picture formed by Other.

For him, the reality of technicity means that all things are forced into a groundplan of mechanistic, materialistic thought. Whilst man previously acted and lived in a picture in which he was part of a hierarchy below God, now man puts all reality into an objectified picture. In this man is the measure of all, nothing exists except as man has interpreted through the groundplan.

This is an excellent essay and well worth the read.


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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:48 am 
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gherkin wrote:
You're asking a professor for a reading list. That is a dangerous game. I'll bold the ones that I would particularly emphasize in terms of what I'd say are the most important books to start with.

The greatest book I have read on these matters is The Sun of Justice by Harold Robbins.

If you want to start close to home, read Vandana Shiva's Who Really Feeds the World.

For Americans maybe best place to start, to my mind, is Wendell Berry's The Unsettling of America. This can of course be read and appreciated by non-Americans, too, but it will have special resonance for us here. For those with limited budgets, you can find the text of his recent Jefferson lecture online--I'm not endorsing this whole website, just linking to Berry's text! Once again, Berry, as a localist, is writing as and largely for Americans.

Fathers Ligutti and Rawe wrote a book in, I think, the 40's or 50's called Rural Roads to Security. Very good stuff from the latter stages of the American Catholic Land Movement.

The Catholic Land Movement is intimately connected with the Distributists, and you can get some of the flavor of Distributism from the great trilogy by Belloc, consisting of The Servile State, Economics for Helen, and An Essay on the Restoration of Property.

EF Schumacher, Small is Beautiful
Neil Postman, Technopoly
Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

Patrick Deneen, Why Liberalism Failed
Ananda Coomaraswamy, Christian and Oriental Philosophy of Art (this is a book, but the link goes only to the title essay)
Karl Polanyi, The Great Transformation
Harry Braverman, Labor and Monopoly Capital Braverman was a commie, admittedly, and of course that means his positive views are abhorrent. But this book is largely history and criticism, and it is absolutely stunning stuff. I can't recommend it highly enough. If you read it in conjunction with Huxley, in particular, it'll smack you in the face. Postman is relevant, too.

And lots of stuff by Chesterton, who is not super great when it comes to really clear statements like Belloc's Essay or whatnot, but is supremely great at painting the general picture. As far as fiction goes, his most Distributist works are probably Napoleon of Notting Hill, Return of Don Quixote, The Man Who Knew Too Much, and Tales of the Long Bow. Maybe the Poet and the Lunatics--it's been a long time now since I read it and I can't remember much about it. But it's from a strong Distributist period. For non-fiction, his best work on Distributism is probably The Outline of Sanity, though What's Wrong With the World is better-known. Utopia of Usurers and Eugenics and Other Evils are also good and for various reasons I like What I saw in America, too. I would not say it's a Distributist work, exactly. Also, it probably means more to me as an American than it might to a non-American.

Chesterton and Belloc write as Englishmen in the same way that Berry writes as an American. But then the experience of modern Indians is inseparable from English imperialism, so the English stuff (perhaps especially since Belloc and Chesterton were anti-imperialists) might feel less foreign to you than American stuff. I don't know.


Do you know of any book on these topics that involve the thought of Gandhiji? He was an advocate of domesticity and simplicity.

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:46 pm 
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No. Schumacher talks about Gandhi every so often. Vandana Shiva might, but I don't really recall.

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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:55 pm 
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Okay. At any rate, Gandhi's socioeconomic ideas are reasonably good and in harmony with these authors, right?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:18 am 
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From what I know of him, yes. But I really only know of him from those authors, so...

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 Post subject: Re: Technicity uproot quote meaning
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:28 am 
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Here's a sample: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhian_economics

His views on possession and authority might be off, but the general points seem to be good

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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