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 Post subject: Re: Why Roman Catholicism and not Eastern Orthodoxy and vise
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:56 pm 
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beng wrote:
Vadim wrote:
beng wrote:
Since when is the prohibition to eat blood (Acts 15:29) reinstated?

When was it cancelled?


By Paul. I have posted the verse.


Curiously, does Orthodox still follow this injunction?

1 Corinthians 11:5-16
5* but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head--it is the same as if her head were shaven. 6 For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. 7* For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8* (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9* Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) 10 That is why a woman ought to have a veil * on her head, because of the angels. 11 (Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 12* for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.) 13 Judge for yourselves; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16* If any one is disposed to be contentious, we recognize no other practice, nor do the churches of God.


I saw youtube Orthodox Divine Liturgy (it was Russian) and there were women without head covering and having short hair.


I don't understand this point. Paul's teaching on this topic appears to be "if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil". Presumably the ladies Beng saw are in a cultural context where long or short hair isn't an issue, so there would be no need to cover their head?


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 Post subject: Re: Why Roman Catholicism and not Eastern Orthodoxy and vise
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:28 am 
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HalJordan wrote:
Vadim wrote:
HalJordan wrote:
Finally, how do we know the Old Believers are wrong? I honestly don't know and haven't gotten any responses on the EO boards I've asked this on.

Do you mean "how do we know that their teaching is wrong?", or "how do we know that they don't belong to the Orthodox Church?"?


Both.

Let me begin with an answer to the second question: "how do we know that the Old Believers don't belong to the Orthodox Church?"

We can determine this by means of the following criterion, which in this particular excerpt was expressed by Pope Pelagius I (555-560) and commented by Ignaz von Dollinger:

    «Even Pope Pelagius I. praises St. Augustine for “being mindful of the divine doctrine which places the foundation of the Church in the Apostolical Sees, and teaching that they are schismatics who separate themselves from the communion of these Apostolical Sees.” This Pope (555-560), then, knows nothing of any exclusive teaching privilege of Rome, but only of the necessity of adhering in disputed questions of faith to the Apostolical Churches — Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem, as well as Rome.» [1]

Old Believers separated themselves not only off the Russian Orthodox Church, but also off all the other «Apostolical Sees» ( = , in modern terminology, «Primates of Local Orthodox Churches». Even if some of these Churches were not founded by the apostles immediately, still, they are equal to those which were).

By the way, this excerpt contradicts simultaneously to the Roman Catholic teaching on the Church and to the Protestant one. Protestants separated themselves off all «Apostolical Sees», and Roman Catholics — off all but Roman See. Pope Pelagius speaks of Sees, not of See, of many, not of one.

An analogy: the Internet. How do we know that a given computer is connected to the Interner? Do we know this because this computer is connected to some kind of «main computer» (which is an analogy to the Pope)? No; there is no such a thing as a «main computer» in the Internet [to be precise, there are so called «servers» ( = main computers), but these servers are numerous. Servers can be considered as analogy to Orthodox bishops, which, on the one hand, are equal among themselves, but on another hand, differ from laymen, like servers differ from ordinary computers]. We know this because a computer is connected to ALL THE OTHER COMPUTERS of the Internet.

In other words, Orthodox Catholic Church is, like Roman Catholic Church, visible, but the criterion of visibility is different. On the other hand, Protestants (and probably Old Believers? I don't know) teach of the «invisible Church».

As concerns teaching of Old Believers, they focus on rite and at times ascribe too much meaning to differences between different rites — for instance, whether one should cross himself by two or by three fingers.

[1] Janus. The Pope and the Council. London, 1869. P. 89. https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=bV ... &q&f=false


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 Post subject: Re: Why Roman Catholicism and not Eastern Orthodoxy and vise
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:09 pm 
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Holy thread resurrection, Batman!


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 Post subject: Re: Why Roman Catholicism and not Eastern Orthodoxy and vise
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:23 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

Earlier, I thought that Pope Francis was going to destroy the Roman Catholic Church by accepting the now popular opinion that homosexual unions are not sinful. But recently Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith published official comment on this issue, in which it still holds the traditional Christian teaching on this issue. This revived my interest to this forum.

Here is an illustration to my previous message. In this video, one can hear, that, while serving the Divine Liturgy, Patriarch of Jerusalem Theophilos III commemorates Primates of the other Local Orthodox Churches. Fourth mentioned is «Cyril Moskas» (this is how «Moscow» is pronounced in Greek), that is to say, Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, but he does NOT mention «Metropolitan» Korniliy, who is a Primate of schismatic group named Russian Orthodox Old-Rite Church.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Roman Catholicism and not Eastern Orthodoxy and vise
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:24 pm 
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Vadim wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

Earlier, I thought that Pope Francis was going to destroy the Roman Catholic Church by accepting the now popular opinion that homosexual unions are not sinful. But recently Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith published official comment on this issue, in which it still holds the traditional Christian teaching on this issue. This revived my interest to this forum.

Here is an illustration to my previous message. In this video, one can hear, that, while serving the Divine Liturgy, Patriarch of Jerusalem Theophilos III commemorates Primates of the other Local Orthodox Churches. Fourth mentioned is «Cyril Moskas» (this is how «Moscow» is pronounced in Greek), that is to say, Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, but he does NOT mention «Metropolitan» Korniliy, who is a Primate of schismatic group named Russian Orthodox Old-Rite Church.


Those jurisdictions can be quite the nuisance! It's like, you never know who really runs things.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Roman Catholicism and not Eastern Orthodoxy and vise
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:31 pm 
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Nathan wrote:
Those jurisdictions can be quite the nuisance! It's like, you never know who really runs things.

This depends on a kind of these «things». If, for instance, a priest sins, he is judged by a local bishop. If this bishop sins, be him even a patriarch, he is judged by a local council of bishops. If several bishops sin, or, in other words, a schism within a Local Church occurs, it is healed by an ecumenical council.


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