Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 17 posts ]   
Author Message
 Post subject: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:37 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 9:25 pm
Posts: 10622
Location: As I understand it.....in God's will. This is the best place to be.
Religion: Orthodox (In Communion With Rome)
Church Affiliations: Past Grand Knight KoC 15107
I just read a post that has me scratching my head. It is from a supposed seer, and in one of the messages he supposedly recieved, the Lord says to him that the Eucharist is fully God, meaning that the Father and the Holy Spirit are present in the Eucharist with Christ.

This sounds...............way off to me.

But I could be wrong?

Father Obi????


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 12:49 am 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82833
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
You are not wrong.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:47 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 9:25 pm
Posts: 10622
Location: As I understand it.....in God's will. This is the best place to be.
Religion: Orthodox (In Communion With Rome)
Church Affiliations: Past Grand Knight KoC 15107
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
You are not wrong.


Thank you for responding. Unfortunately, I recieved the link from my godmother who brought me into the apostolic faith. I will not make an issue of it with her, but simply ignore what she suggested and move on.

I have to wonder about so many of the "visionaries" and "seers" and the like. I've already caught one or two in false prophecies (BTW - I don't make a habit of seeking these folks out. When friends show me their stuff - I investigate the source). It seems that there may be a psychology behind what is happening to them. At any rate, it is sad. Seems that it will get to the point with these folks that any true message from the Lord or Our Lady will be swallowed up by the off base stuff and brought into question.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 8:19 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:33 am
Posts: 4175
Religion: Catholic
From the CCC:

“ 253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85”

Perhaps the seer meant something related to this ^^^^^^ ?

Also, and I cannot recall where in the CCC, it states something to the effect that “where one person of The Trinity exists, the other two Persons are substantially present as well....” or something like that.....I’m probably confusing things here.

Lastly, we call Mary the “Mother of God”, so why wouldn’t, in some sense, the Eucharist not be considered “God”?

And to be clear, I’m not saying I disagree with Father’s comments, just seeking clarity. :)

_________________
"So mercifully blessed to be free from the ravages of intelligence." - Taken from Time Bandits


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:59 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 9:25 pm
Posts: 10622
Location: As I understand it.....in God's will. This is the best place to be.
Religion: Orthodox (In Communion With Rome)
Church Affiliations: Past Grand Knight KoC 15107
Peetem wrote:
From the CCC:

“ 253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85”

Perhaps the seer meant something related to this ^^^^^^ ?

Also, and I cannot recall where in the CCC, it states something to the effect that “where one person of The Trinity exists, the other two Persons are substantially present as well....” or something like that.....I’m probably confusing things here.

Lastly, we call Mary the “Mother of God”, so why wouldn’t, in some sense, the Eucharist not be considered “God”?

And to be clear, I’m not saying I disagree with Father’s comments, just seeking clarity. :)


In everything I have ever read, the Eucharist has never been called "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." It has always been referred to as the Body and Blood of Christ. Yes, God in Christ is present, but the Father and the Holy Spirit are most certainly NOT!!

Now if this "seer" can find me a statement from the Early Fathers in which they teach that the Eucharist is substantially the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then I will give him a check mark. Right now I just think he's nuts!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 3:37 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82833
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Sadly, there's a considerable segment of the apparitions/revelations subculture that is far too ready to accept things. I admit that I might err somewhat in the other direction, but then I've also done a bit of reading on this and am aware that even canonized saints have been demonstrably wrong on things they thought were revealed to them. In the case of modern-day seers, I am afraid that many of them do not receive adequate (or any) spiritual direction.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 10:47 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:33 am
Posts: 4175
Religion: Catholic
To be clear, I am NOT suggesting that I agree with the “seer”. I honestly tend to doubt almost all of these types of things, even most private revelations given to many saints. To be honest, its why I have had trouble accepting the Divine Mercy revelations given by St. Faustina.

That being said, I can see where someone could err and make the claim mentioned in the OP. However, I would like to understand the theological reasons why it is an error.

I have my own ideas, but would like hear others.

_________________
"So mercifully blessed to be free from the ravages of intelligence." - Taken from Time Bandits


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 8:38 am 
Offline
Criminally Insane Cucumber
Criminally Insane Cucumber
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:20 pm
Posts: 33823
Location: The countertop
Religion: The True One
Church Affiliations: OblSB
We do call our Lady the Mother of God, but not the Mother of God the Father, or the Mother of God the Holy Spirit. I don't pretend my grasp on Trinitarian theology is very strong, but the distinctions among the Persons of the Blessed Trinity are meaningful.

_________________
Suscipe me secundum eloquium tuum, et vivam: et non confundas me ab exspectatione mea.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 9:51 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:55 pm
Posts: 343
Religion: Catholic
Everything I wrote is straw after reading St Thomas on this so I’m deleting my post. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:10 am 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82833
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
The Father was not incarnate and does not have a body. The Holy Spirit was not incarnate and does not have a body. Only the Son is incarnate, and therefore we receive only His Body.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 8:41 am 
Offline
Master
Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:20 pm
Posts: 2443
Religion: Catholic
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Sadly, there's a considerable segment of the apparitions/revelations subculture that is far too ready to accept things. I admit that I might err somewhat in the other direction, but then I've also done a bit of reading on this and am aware that even canonized saints have been demonstrably wrong on things they thought were revealed to them. In the case of modern-day seers, I am afraid that many of them do not receive adequate (or any) spiritual direction.


I do the same Father.

In my case, the subculture was in my home and all around me as a child, all the way into my early adult life. I wish I could say it brought me closer to God, but I think it did the opposite. Too many of the "I see Jesus on my tortilla" types of scenarios did harm to my faith. They didn't claim to be seers, but typically the same people that jumped on those types of claims, were the same people willing to believe all manner of things from seers.

_________________
Everything in the universe has its being not only from God but also toward God.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:32 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:55 pm
Posts: 343
Religion: Catholic
Can’t we say the Father and Holy Spirit are “Present in the Eucharist” in a different way or have a different mode of presence, than how the Son is present, for example, the Father and Holy Spirit being present, by Divine Power, in the act of transubstantiation, just like They were present in the Hypostatic Union, by Divine Power, uniting human nature to the One Divine Person?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:32 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:33 am
Posts: 4175
Religion: Catholic
Strider wrote:
Can’t we say the Father and Holy Spirit are “Present in the Eucharist” in a different way or have a different mode of presence, than how the Son is present, for example, the Father and Holy Spirit being present, by Divine Power, in the act of transubstantiation, just like They were present in the Hypostatic Union, by Divine Power, uniting human nature to the One Divine Person?


From the CCC:

255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance." Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship." "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."

Emphasis mine.

_________________
"So mercifully blessed to be free from the ravages of intelligence." - Taken from Time Bandits


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:33 am
Posts: 4175
Religion: Catholic
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
The Father was not incarnate and does not have a body. The Holy Spirit was not incarnate and does not have a body. Only the Son is incarnate, and therefore we receive only His Body.


Thanks Father, this makes sense.

_________________
"So mercifully blessed to be free from the ravages of intelligence." - Taken from Time Bandits


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:33 am
Posts: 4175
Religion: Catholic
gherkin wrote:
We do call our Lady the Mother of God, but not the Mother of God the Father, or the Mother of God the Holy Spirit. I don't pretend my grasp on Trinitarian theology is very strong, but the distinctions among the Persons of the Blessed Trinity are meaningful.


This also makes sense. :)

_________________
"So mercifully blessed to be free from the ravages of intelligence." - Taken from Time Bandits


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 6:57 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82833
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Banned for thinking that gherkin makes sense.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Question about the Eucharist
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 5:49 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:33 am
Posts: 4175
Religion: Catholic
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Banned for thinking that gherkin makes sense.


Rookie mistake. Won’t happen again.

_________________
"So mercifully blessed to be free from the ravages of intelligence." - Taken from Time Bandits


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 17 posts ]   


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests


Jump to: