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Will you willingly take a "dread disease" vaccine?
Yes 33%  33%  [ 10 ]
Never 27%  27%  [ 8 ]
Only if not using fetal cells in development 13%  13%  [ 4 ]
Only at gunpoint/held down and forced 10%  10%  [ 3 ]
Texas 17%  17%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 30
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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:05 pm 
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gherkin wrote:
I don't have strong views on the in-general question, but in this specific case, I think the amazing bloody rush to get the alleged vaccine out means we are still very firmly in the "what could go wrong?" phase, and of course that means the next phase will be the "who could have predicted?" phase. I prefer to avoid whatever it is that prompts that next phase.

Eh, this is no different than any other. This is a different kind of vaccine. They developed it in 2 days back in January. Clinical trials have always been of little importance for vaccines. Worrying about it now is a bit silly. The trials and such have been just as good for this one as any other.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:28 pm 
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I will let the experts speak for me:

https://www.bit chute.com/video/xQGbti5U9KD6/

There is apparently an algorhythm set up to monitor for "bad words"

The link has the word b i t c h u t e in it, and the algorhythm deleted that word because it appears to be a naughty description of a nasty woman.

Let's see if this works.

Yes, it does. So to see a number of doctors who are experts in their field speaking on this entirely bogus nonsense and the dangers of the vaccine, take the above URL and eliminate the space between bit and chute.


Last edited by Light of the East on Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:32 pm 
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Link no worky. PM it to me.

P.S. I mentally replace the word "expert" with "idiot". Just fyi.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:41 pm 
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Bombadil wrote:
Link no worky. PM it to me.

P.S. I mentally replace the word "expert" with "idiot". Just fyi.


I have updated the link with instructions on how to overcome the censorship of this forum.

I find your ad hominum insults of men and women who are experts in their field, highly trained and educated, to be both dismaying and unChristian. You judge without even hearing the evidence?


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:43 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but I respect parental rights, which means the ultimate decision on whether or not to vaccinate needs to be made by the parent and not the government. I blindly accepted the dictates of the CDC until I rushed to have my young teenage daughter injected with Gardisil, which I now regret deeply.

The memory of a former co-worker's husband who developed Guillen-Barré Syndrome after receiving his annual flu shot also bothers me. He was all but in a vegetative state for six months; it took 18 months before he was anywhere in the neighborhood of normal. I cooled significantly on getting flu shots myself after that happened some 30 years ago. I got the shots during my time working in correctional facilities (it was a job requirement), but I didn't do it before then or after. In all those decades, I've been bedridden a sum total of twice - both times in years when I got the shot.

Getting the straight skivvy from a close friend who does research work for the CDC on occasion (he does it full time for the research hospital that employs him; he gets seconded to the CDC from time to time) makes me even less confident of either the efficacy or the safety of the vaccine. Considering that I've likely already had the illness (I got sick but never got tested), the ridiculously poor track record of the flu vaccine year in and year out, and the 99+% survival rate of COVID, my response to taking this haphazardly-concocted and hurriedly-tested COVID vaccine is not just no, but "H-E-double hockey sticks NO!" :verymad:


What was the outcome for your daughter? Is she okay now? (I hate hearing stories like this)


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:53 pm 
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She never developed any Gardisil-related issues that I’m aware of. I just didn’t know at the time how insidious the vaccine was; had I known then, I wouldn’t have given my consent to inject it in her.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:54 pm 
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Light of the East wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
Link no worky. PM it to me.

P.S. I mentally replace the word "expert" with "idiot". Just fyi.


I have updated the link with instructions on how to overcome the censorship of this forum.

I find your ad hominum insults of men and women who are experts in their field, highly trained and educated, to be both dismaying and unChristian. You judge without even hearing the evidence?


I mean if it is proclaimed to me on the news here is an expert. And, it's generally true, so I am sticking with it.

I would call those citizen testimonials that you posted. Not that I don't respect their opinions. I trust no one based on credentials, either they make a compelling argument or not.

I find respect for experts to be repugnant. It is what got us where we are. Here we sit. Surrounded by hundreds of legal experts. Justices, judges, on their high courts, with their big wigs, endlessly, flagrantly, flaunting, violating, nay, even breaking the law.

Do not respect experts. To do so is idiocy. Technical acumen is another beast, I can respect a man with a proven record.

I'll watch the video tomorrow, I'm swamped. 3 minutes in they make points but no case. Not that I disagree, but i can't say more tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:38 am 
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Signum Crucis wrote:
I've never had a flu shot, and haven't had the flu in a long time. I don't think a vaccine would necessarily help me. I'm 68. I've read that older people who have never had a flu shot probably shouldn't start.

I know someone who got shingles from the shingles vaccine.

I'm the Texas vote, because I am not sure right now. I will discuss it with my doctor when I go to my next checkup, or if I start getting sick with flu-like symptoms. I'm leaning toward no.


My mom had shingles several years ago and told me it was very uncomfortable. So when the two-shot shingles vaccination was offered to me for free a tad more than a year ago, I accepted. I got the first of the two shots circa October 2019. I was supposed to get the second shot roughly between three and six months later. But then the news of Covid-19 erupted. I stopped by my local pharmacy several times to get the second shot but couldn't either because I was sent away to prioritize Covid testing or because syringes or needles were in short supply (due to people getting flu shots?). Anyway, I never got that second shot for vaccination against shingles. Now what?

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:47 am 
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I am not anti-vax at all. I will not take vaccines created with the use of murdered babies. I will not take one that has strange genetic altering properties, I will not take it without seeing the side effects on the hapless folks that jump all in.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:21 am 
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Bombadil wrote:
gherkin wrote:
I don't have strong views on the in-general question, but in this specific case, I think the amazing bloody rush to get the alleged vaccine out means we are still very firmly in the "what could go wrong?" phase, and of course that means the next phase will be the "who could have predicted?" phase. I prefer to avoid whatever it is that prompts that next phase.

Eh, this is no different than any other. This is a different kind of vaccine. They developed it in 2 days back in January. Clinical trials have always been of little importance for vaccines. Worrying about it now is a bit silly. The trials and such have been just as good for this one as any other.


mRNA research has been going on for a number of years.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25233993/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5906799/

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:41 pm 
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Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
I am not anti-vax at all. I will not take vaccines created with the use of murdered babies. I will not take one that has strange genetic altering properties, I will not take it without seeing the side effects on the hapless folks that jump all in.


My wife received an Email from her sister in the Philippines. There was a news note in it. 100 people in England were paid to try the vaccine that Bill Gates developed.

All 100 were dead within the week.

Media?

CRICKETS


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:45 pm 
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The sad part about all this is that I find that my trust in my government is "0"

As in none, nada, zip, zilch, zero.

After years of exposure of lies on both the Republican and Democrat side, seeing criminals caught red-handed walk free and keep their offices, I have no trust in anything that Washington puts out.

Therefore, if they are pushing this vaccine, that's enough for me to stay far, FAR away from it. Shame the black folk in the Tuskeegee Syphillis Experiment didn't have that same level of utter distrust.


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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:47 pm 
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Light of the East wrote:
I will let the experts speak for me:

https://www.bit chute.com/video/xQGbti5U9KD6/

There is apparently an algorhythm set up to monitor for "bad words"

The link has the word b i t c h u t e in it, and the algorhythm deleted that word because it appears to be a naughty description of a nasty woman.

Let's see if this works.

Yes, it does. So to see a number of doctors who are experts in their field speaking on this entirely bogus nonsense and the dangers of the vaccine, take the above URL and eliminate the space between bit and chute.


So, I’m not going to take the vaccine and neither will my family. However, this video provided zero scientific evidence as to why, as “experts”, they oppose the vaccine either. It was just a litany of doctors saying over and over again that we shouldn’t take the vaccine.

Honestly, a few of these folks seemed credible, but many of them seemed like, well, to be charitable, “quacks”. For example - one person was a “homeopathic doctor” (totally disproven “science”) and another a chiropractor. Those “doctors” hardly qualify as experts in mRNA recombinant vaccine delivery, efficacy, safety and long term potential consequences. Heck, true chiropractors don’t even believe in even taking aspirin, so why would they ever support an mRNA vaccine?

I just wouldn’t put any credence on a highly-charged collage of self-described “experts” who say much of anything, least alone about vaccines related to a current pandemic.

Just how I see it....

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:50 pm 
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St. Irenaeus of Lyons wrote:
Signum Crucis wrote:
I've never had a flu shot, and haven't had the flu in a long time. I don't think a vaccine would necessarily help me. I'm 68. I've read that older people who have never had a flu shot probably shouldn't start.

I know someone who got shingles from the shingles vaccine.

I'm the Texas vote, because I am not sure right now. I will discuss it with my doctor when I go to my next checkup, or if I start getting sick with flu-like symptoms. I'm leaning toward no.


My mom had shingles several years ago and told me it was very uncomfortable. So when the two-shot shingles vaccination was offered to me for free a tad more than a year ago, I accepted. I got the first of the two shots circa October 2019. I was supposed to get the second shot roughly between three and six months later. But then the news of Covid-19 erupted. I stopped by my local pharmacy several times to get the second shot but couldn't either because I was sent away to prioritize Covid testing or because syringes or needles were in short supply (due to people getting flu shots?). Anyway, I never got that second shot for vaccination against shingles. Now what?


Taking the first dose provides at least a 60% efficacy against shingles. The second does brings the protection up to 90%.

So either go get the second dose or don’t. You have more protection that you did.

I won’t get it because it messed me up so bad I’m terrified. I’ve heard shingles is the worst thing you can ever get, but I tell you I was ready to die my shoulder hurt so bad. No, I’m not kidding.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:57 pm 
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kage_ar wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
gherkin wrote:
I don't have strong views on the in-general question, but in this specific case, I think the amazing bloody rush to get the alleged vaccine out means we are still very firmly in the "what could go wrong?" phase, and of course that means the next phase will be the "who could have predicted?" phase. I prefer to avoid whatever it is that prompts that next phase.

Eh, this is no different than any other. This is a different kind of vaccine. They developed it in 2 days back in January. Clinical trials have always been of little importance for vaccines. Worrying about it now is a bit silly. The trials and such have been just as good for this one as any other.


mRNA research has been going on for a number of years.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25233993/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5906799/


Kage, I’ve done a lot of research on this....and let’s just say there’s a reason there are no RNA vaccines. Some of them good (e.g., RNA viruses mutate quickly and always get weaker over time, eventually, so why have a vaccine?). But, trials of RNA and mRNA vaccines have generally not gone well in the past from a safety perspective.

Now, hopefully they got this right with the mRNA approach. But, because I’m in a relatively low-risk group (of death anyway) being 52 and in overall great health, I’m taking a wait and see approach.....and by “wait”, I mean at least three years.

This is just my personal opinion and I’m no doctor. You’ve got to do what you’ve got to do....

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:30 am 
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Peetem wrote:
Dorothy B. wrote:
In the poll I responded that I would take the vaccine if I knew there was no fetal cells in it.

Then I came across this site:

https://www.markmallett.com/blog/the-caduceus-key/

It is a long read and don't have the smarts to understand a lot of it. I tried. There may be some members here who like to read articles such as this and may understand it better than I do, and want to comment on it. There is a lot to think about in it.


Of the three vaccines that are either approved or likely approved, IIRC one was derived using fetal stem cells and two were not. However, again IIRC, all three did use fetal stem cell lines for testing.


we got direction from the cardinal ... he said

Quote:
Cardinal DiNardo issued a statement which clarifies the moral permissibility of Catholic use of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. He concludes that "Neither the Pfizer nor the Moderna vaccine involved the use of cell lines that originated in tissue taken from the body of an aborted baby at any level of design, development, or production." The Cardinal further states that "It is morally permissible to receive the COVID-19 vaccines which will be available for distribution in Texas beginning this month."

Read the full statement which addresses a third vaccine produced by AstraZeneca which, he says, is "morally concerning because of its origins" but that the Cardinal reassures is also "acceptable to receive" if it is the only vaccine option available in a given place.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:33 am 
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Dorothy B. wrote:
Peetem wrote:
Dorothy B. wrote:
In the poll I responded that I would take the vaccine if I knew there was no fetal cells in it.

Then I came across this site:

https://www.markmallett.com/blog/the-caduceus-key/

It is a long read and don't have the smarts to understand a lot of it. I tried. There may be some members here who like to read articles such as this and may understand it better than I do, and want to comment on it. There is a lot to think about in it.


Of the three vaccines that are either approved or likely approved, IIRC one was derived using fetal stem cells and two were not. However, again IIRC, all three did use fetal stem cell lines for testing.


Thank you for that information!


Here's an additional link that supports what I posted, but also dives into the ethics:

https://www.hprweb.com/2020/12/should-catholics-receive-a-covid-19-vaccine/

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:35 am 
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faithfulservant wrote:
Peetem wrote:
Dorothy B. wrote:
In the poll I responded that I would take the vaccine if I knew there was no fetal cells in it.

Then I came across this site:

https://www.markmallett.com/blog/the-caduceus-key/

It is a long read and don't have the smarts to understand a lot of it. I tried. There may be some members here who like to read articles such as this and may understand it better than I do, and want to comment on it. There is a lot to think about in it.


Of the three vaccines that are either approved or likely approved, IIRC one was derived using fetal stem cells and two were not. However, again IIRC, all three did use fetal stem cell lines for testing.


we got direction from the cardinal ... he said

Quote:
Cardinal DiNardo issued a statement which clarifies the moral permissibility of Catholic use of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. He concludes that "Neither the Pfizer nor the Moderna vaccine involved the use of cell lines that originated in tissue taken from the body of an aborted baby at any level of design, development, or production." The Cardinal further states that "It is morally permissible to receive the COVID-19 vaccines which will be available for distribution in Texas beginning this month."

Read the full statement which addresses a third vaccine produced by AstraZeneca which, he says, is "morally concerning because of its origins" but that the Cardinal reassures is also "acceptable to receive" if it is the only vaccine option available in a given place.


I just posted an article that dives into more detail (see above). But, all three were tested using fetal cells. However, only one was developed using those cells exclusively.

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:47 am 
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think i ought to send your link to the Cardinal to see if he would like to amend his statement... it's hard to believe he would make the statement he did .... surely someone should have researched that a little more carefully for him

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 Post subject: Re: Poll: Will you take the Vaccine?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:53 am 
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Not all fetal stem cells come from aborted babies.

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