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 Post subject: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 3:18 am 
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And what is the Biblical basis for a priest to be able to tell another that their sins against others have been forgiven?

Can we skip the priest and just confess our sins to God and ask him ourselves to forgive us?

Thanks in advance and God bless all here!


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 9:30 am 
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At the conclusion of John's gospel, Jesus breathes on the 11 surviving apostles and says "whose sins you forgive are forgiven, whose you retain are retained"

I don't understand why Christians who like to brag about interpreting the Bible "literally" or "according to the plain sense" seem to miss this passage entirely.....the plain sense is that Jesus gave his apostles the authority to forgive sins, now how could they do that unless the sinner is repentant? And how to determine if a sinner is repentant except by hearing the sinner recount his sins (i.e. confession)

The same author wrote in his first epistle that "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us, but if we confess our sins, God who is faithful and just will forgive our sins"....we are told to confess our sins, and we are told that the apostles have the authority to forgive sin.....1+1 =?

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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 9:49 am 
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In addition to John 20:23, Jesus also said the same thing in Mt. 16:19 & 18:18.

There's also the directive in James 5:16a "Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed." Who better to confess our sins to than a church leader?

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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 4:21 pm 
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That whole Jesus breathing on the 11 and talking about forgiving and retaining is enough for me!

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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 4:45 pm 
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DogDude wrote:
And what is the Biblical basis for a priest to be able to tell another that their sins against others have been forgiven?

Can we skip the priest and just confess our sins to God and ask him ourselves to forgive us?

Thanks in advance and God bless all here!

If we just confess our sins to God and ask him to forgive us, how do we know God has forgiven us, instead of US forgiving ourselves?


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 1:03 am 
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Thanks for the responses. So am I understanding correctly that all priests have the same abilities and powers as the original apostles?

The other day I was driving and became a little frustrated with another driver and blurted out a profanity about them to myself. Moments later I collected myself and apologized to God for my offensive language as well as my less than charitable attitude toward another. I was sorry and I meant it. Do you believe that I was forgiven or is forgiveness only attainable through confession to a priest?

Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 1:13 am 
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Doom wrote:
I don't understand why Christians who like to brag about interpreting the Bible "literally"...


Did I do that or are you taking another's statements or beliefs and assigning them to me?

I'm not a theologian. Does one have to be a Catholic theologian to be saved?

Here's my belief. If one faithfully follows the Great Commandment, they're good to go. Love God. Obey his commandments. Love one another. Anyone who does that is saved and that's all anyone really needs to know.

I'm acquainted with an autistic young woman who seems to have the personality of a 6-year-old. She talks and sings about Jesus and is totally sweet to everyone she meets. I won't be surprised at all that, in Heaven, I discover that she is appointed governor over a great swathe of God's kingdom while the theologians and guys like you me are taking orders from her.

I believe that Jesus wants us to have a loving relationship with him and one another and, beyond that, it doesn't really matter.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 10:34 am 
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DogDude wrote:
Doom wrote:
I don't understand why Christians who like to brag about interpreting the Bible "literally"...


Did I do that or are you taking another's statements or beliefs and assigning them to me?

I'm not a theologian. Does one have to be a Catholic theologian to be saved?

Here's my belief. If one faithfully follows the Great Commandment, they're good to go. Love God. Obey his commandments. Love one another. Anyone who does that is saved and that's all anyone really needs to know.

I'm acquainted with an autistic young woman who seems to have the personality of a 6-year-old. She talks and sings about Jesus and is totally sweet to everyone she meets. I won't be surprised at all that, in Heaven, I discover that she is appointed governor over a great swathe of God's kingdom while the theologians and guys like you me are taking orders from her.

I believe that Jesus wants us to have a loving relationship with him and one another and, beyond that, it doesn't really matter.


Many, many, many, many, many, many people argue that that "the plain teaching" of the scripture says this or thst I'm making the point that I have never once seen someone who talks this way who seems aware that this verse exists. This is a legitimate point for me to make regardless of whatever your view might be, I don't know what your views are, I am not a mind reader you know.

But instead of getting offended for no reason, you could have told me what you thought of my citation

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Last edited by Doom on Thu May 05, 2022 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 11:52 am 
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DogDude wrote:
Thanks for the responses. So am I understanding correctly that all priests have the same abilities and powers as the original apostles?

The other day I was driving and became a little frustrated with another driver and blurted out a profanity about them to myself. Moments later I collected myself and apologized to God for my offensive language as well as my less than charitable attitude toward another. I was sorry and I meant it. Do you believe that I was forgiven or is forgiveness only attainable through confession to a priest?

Thanks again.


Yes, I do believe that you are forgiven. And it is great to ask for that forgiveness having recognized that something wrong was done.

I would like to add that, as a Catholic, Sacramental Confession is a great blessing to me, and I go monthly. There is more to Catholic theology, such as mortal and venial sin, and the difference between the two. Also, some priests know how to give excellent advice .


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 5:14 pm 
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DogDude wrote:
Thanks for the responses. So am I understanding correctly that all priests have the same abilities and powers as the original apostles?

The other day I was driving and became a little frustrated with another driver and blurted out a profanity about them to myself. Moments later I collected myself and apologized to God for my offensive language as well as my less than charitable attitude toward another. I was sorry and I meant it. Do you believe that I was forgiven or is forgiveness only attainable through confession to a priest?

Thanks again.


1 John 5:14-16 (NIV)

14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.


Catholics believe there are two classes of sin as noted in scripture above - Mortal and Venial.

Mortal sin is sin that leads to death (e.g., spiritual death)

Venial sin does not lead to death.

Mortal sins are forgiven by confessing to a priest and receiving absolution.

Venial sins are forgiven, as noted by scripture, by prayer (and the Eucharist, but we aren't talking about that right now).

I would add that I used a popular Protestant translation of the bible, but most translations are similar about this passage:

The King James version says:

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

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Last edited by Peetem on Thu May 05, 2022 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 5:17 pm 
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Doom wrote:
DogDude wrote:
Doom wrote:
I don't understand why Christians who like to brag about interpreting the Bible "literally"...


Did I do that or are you taking another's statements or beliefs and assigning them to me?

I'm not a theologian. Does one have to be a Catholic theologian to be saved?

Here's my belief. If one faithfully follows the Great Commandment, they're good to go. Love God. Obey his commandments. Love one another. Anyone who does that is saved and that's all anyone really needs to know.

I'm acquainted with an autistic young woman who seems to have the personality of a 6-year-old. She talks and sings about Jesus and is totally sweet to everyone she meets. I won't be surprised at all that, in Heaven, I discover that she is appointed governor over a great swathe of God's kingdom while the theologians and guys like you me are taking orders from her.

I believe that Jesus wants us to have a loving relationship with him and one another and, beyond that, it doesn't really matter.
I am not a mind reader you know.

But instead of getting offended for no reason, you could have told me what you thought of my citation


I wasn't offended at all. I simply pointed out how you made me the poster boy for another's beliefs and then lectured me about those beliefs. :).


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 8:00 pm 
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So....would you like to discuss the verses of Scripture quoted for your edification?


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 4:25 pm 
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Doom wrote:
At the conclusion of John's gospel, Jesus breathes on the 11 surviving apostles and says "whose sins you forgive are forgiven, whose you retain are retained"

I don't understand why Christians who like to brag about interpreting the Bible "literally" or "according to the plain sense" seem to miss this passage entirely.....the plain sense is that Jesus gave his apostles the authority to forgive sins, now how could they do that unless the sinner is repentant? And how to determine if a sinner is repentant except by hearing the sinner recount his sins (i.e. confession)

The same author wrote in his first epistle that "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us, but if we confess our sins, God who is faithful and just will forgive our sins"....we are told to confess our sins, and we are told that the apostles have the authority to forgive sin.....1+1 =?


I think it might have been Marcus Grodi who said that once he became a Catholic, he was amazed at all the Bible verses he had missed.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 4:31 pm 
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DogDude wrote:
And what is the Biblical basis for a priest to be able to tell another that their sins against others have been forgiven?

Can we skip the priest and just confess our sins to God and ask him ourselves to forgive us?

Thanks in advance and God bless all here!


The first priest was Adam. He was an intermediary, representing God to Creation and Creation back to God. This is what a priest does. He mediates.

Then there is the issue of covenant authority. Every covenant has an authority structure within it. We see Adam being given representative authority over Creation, that it, he bore God's authority over Creation to act in God's behalf.

This is what a priest does. A really good priest, someone who, like Padre Pio, can read hearts, can speak to the heart of the sinner words that need to be said. And he can also know when the sinner is truly repentant or is playing games with him, as Padre Pio did when a man came to him with no intent to repent, but rather to trick him. Padre Pio called him out on it because he was able to read the man's heart.

I think one thing that the West suffers from, especially in America, is this sense of individualism where we really don't like others being over us, telling us what to do, etc. But the covenant kingdom is a representative kingdom, and we do well to honor God by honoring those whom He has put over us.

Hope that helps a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 7:51 pm 
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Light of the East wrote:
DogDude wrote:
And what is the Biblical basis for a priest to be able to tell another that their sins against others have been forgiven?

Can we skip the priest and just confess our sins to God and ask him ourselves to forgive us?

Thanks in advance and God bless all here!



I think one thing that the West suffers from, especially in America, is this sense of individualism where we really don't like others being over us, telling us what to do, etc. But the covenant kingdom is a representative kingdom, and we do well to honor God by honoring those whom He has put over us
.


LOTE, you nailed it!

Our will’s are ordered towards what is eternal, good, and liberating. But, we’ve been deluded into thinking that individualism is liberating. It’s not.

Something I still struggle with…..

Confessing to a priest is ultimately about humility.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 5:03 am 
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anawim wrote:
In addition to John 20:23, Jesus also said the same thing in Mt. 16:19 & 18:18.

There's also the directive in James 5:16a "Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed." Who better to confess our sins to than a church leader?


John 20:23 is Jesus giving instructions to the apostles. It says nothing about using an intercessory to receive forgiveness from God. I also believe that it's a reach to assume that what Jesus said to the apostle on this occasion also applies to church leaders.

John 20:23
English Standard Version
23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”


Is it the Catholic belief that Matthew 16:19, given by Jesus to the apostles, also applies to the Catholic Church and that, therefore, the Church has a license to implement any doctrine that it sees fit?

Matthew 16:19
English Standard Version
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed[a] in heaven.”


It's nice to share one's moral failures with others so that they can pray for us and support us in our efforts to stay on the narrow path. However, I don't see where followers of Jesus are commanded to confess to a religious leader. If one wants to talk to a priest, that's certainly ok with me, but I don't see the Biblical basis for requiring confession to a priest or any other church leader.

James 5:16
English Standard Version
16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.[a]


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 5:07 am 
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Peetem wrote:
DogDude wrote:
Thanks for the responses. So am I understanding correctly that all priests have the same abilities and powers as the original apostles?

The other day I was driving and became a little frustrated with another driver and blurted out a profanity about them to myself. Moments later I collected myself and apologized to God for my offensive language as well as my less than charitable attitude toward another. I was sorry and I meant it. Do you believe that I was forgiven or is forgiveness only attainable through confession to a priest?

Thanks again.


1 John 5:14-16 (NIV)

14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.


Catholics believe there are two classes of sin as noted in scripture above - Mortal and Venial.

Mortal sin is sin that leads to death (e.g., spiritual death)

Venial sin does not lead to death.

Mortal sins are forgiven by confessing to a priest and receiving absolution.

Venial sins are forgiven, as noted by scripture, by prayer (and the Eucharist, but we aren't talking about that right now).

I would add that I used a popular Protestant translation of the bible, but most translations are similar about this passage:

The King James version says:

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.



Thank you for your feedback. I guess my disconnect with some Catholic teachings is the apparent lack of Biblical justification.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 5:07 pm 
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DogDude wrote:
Peetem wrote:
DogDude wrote:
Thanks for the responses. So am I understanding correctly that all priests have the same abilities and powers as the original apostles?

The other day I was driving and became a little frustrated with another driver and blurted out a profanity about them to myself. Moments later I collected myself and apologized to God for my offensive language as well as my less than charitable attitude toward another. I was sorry and I meant it. Do you believe that I was forgiven or is forgiveness only attainable through confession to a priest?

Thanks again.


1 John 5:14-16 (NIV)

14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.


Catholics believe there are two classes of sin as noted in scripture above - Mortal and Venial.

Mortal sin is sin that leads to death (e.g., spiritual death)

Venial sin does not lead to death.

Mortal sins are forgiven by confessing to a priest and receiving absolution.

Venial sins are forgiven, as noted by scripture, by prayer (and the Eucharist, but we aren't talking about that right now).

I would add that I used a popular Protestant translation of the bible, but most translations are similar about this passage:

The King James version says:

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.



Thank you for your feedback. I guess my disconnect with some Catholic teachings is the apparent lack of Biblical justification.


To clarify, do you mean that some Catholic teachings have an apparent lack of biblical justification?

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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 6:46 pm 
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DogDude wrote:
John 20:23 is Jesus giving instructions to the apostles. It says nothing about using an intercessory to receive forgiveness from God. I also believe that it's a reach to assume that what Jesus said to the apostle on this occasion also applies to church leaders.

Is it the Catholic belief that Matthew 16:19, given by Jesus to the apostles, also applies to the Catholic Church and that, therefore, the Church has a license to implement any doctrine that it sees fit?

Matthew 16:19
English Standard Version
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed[a] in heaven.”


So what do you think the apostles were if not intercessors? Catholics believe that their authority has been handed down as it describes in 2 Tim. 2:2 "And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well."
Paul, an apostle had instructed Timothy, who is being told to entrust to others, who will in turn pass that down to the next generation. That's 4 generations.

Quote:
It's nice to share one's moral failures with others so that they can pray for us and support us in our efforts to stay on the narrow path. However, I don't see where followers of Jesus are commanded to confess to a religious leader. If one wants to talk to a priest, that's certainly ok with me, but I don't see the Biblical basis for requiring confession to a priest or any other church leader.

James 5:16
English Standard Version
16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.[a]


I certainly don't think anyone but a priest, who is appointed as leader, would even be sufficient, let alone qualified.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the Biblical basis for confessing to a priest?
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2022 10:00 pm 
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Peetem wrote:
DogDude wrote:
Peetem wrote:
DogDude wrote:
Thanks for the responses. So am I understanding correctly that all priests have the same abilities and powers as the original apostles?

The other day I was driving and became a little frustrated with another driver and blurted out a profanity about them to myself. Moments later I collected myself and apologized to God for my offensive language as well as my less than charitable attitude toward another. I was sorry and I meant it. Do you believe that I was forgiven or is forgiveness only attainable through confession to a priest?

Thanks again.


1 John 5:14-16 (NIV)

14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.


Catholics believe there are two classes of sin as noted in scripture above - Mortal and Venial.

Mortal sin is sin that leads to death (e.g., spiritual death)

Venial sin does not lead to death.

Mortal sins are forgiven by confessing to a priest and receiving absolution.

Venial sins are forgiven, as noted by scripture, by prayer (and the Eucharist, but we aren't talking about that right now).

I would add that I used a popular Protestant translation of the bible, but most translations are similar about this passage:

The King James version says:

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.



Thank you for your feedback. I guess my disconnect with some Catholic teachings is the apparent lack of Biblical justification.


To clarify, do you mean that some Catholic teachings have an apparent lack of biblical justification?


It seems so to me.


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