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the loss of salvation
http://forums.avemariaradio.net/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=121047
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Author:  pax [ Mon May 03, 2010 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  the loss of salvation

AJ. wrote:
pax wrote:
AJ. wrote:
You could have loved the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength your whole life but take a second look at a scantily clad girl walking by, get hit by a bus while you weren't watching and that's it - hell for you


Wouldn't that be proof that you never really loved the Lord?
Nope, just ask Paul;

"For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing." Rom 7:14

Do you think Paul didn't love the Lord when he was struggling with sin?


To struggle with sin and to commit sin are two entirely different things.

But, let us take another example: A person knows and loves and serves the Lord all their life, putting all their faith and trust in God, and resting in the assurance of their salvation. Then, just before they die, they take an AK47 and shoot up a post office. Do they go to heaven or hell?

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Mon May 03, 2010 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the loss of salvation

AJ seems to be operating under the impression that God somehowowes this guy salvation. How Pelagian.

Author:  metal1633 [ Tue May 11, 2010 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the loss of salvation

pax wrote:
AJ. wrote:
pax wrote:
AJ. wrote:
You could have loved the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength your whole life but take a second look at a scantily clad girl walking by, get hit by a bus while you weren't watching and that's it - hell for you


Wouldn't that be proof that you never really loved the Lord?
Nope, just ask Paul;

"For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing." Rom 7:14

Do you think Paul didn't love the Lord when he was struggling with sin?


To struggle with sin and to commit sin are two entirely different things.

But, let us take another example: A person knows and loves and serves the Lord all their life, putting all their faith and trust in God, and resting in the assurance of their salvation. Then, just before they die, they take an AK47 and shoot up a post office. Do they go to heaven or hell?
Well OBVIOUSLY they were never REALLY saved to begin with...

EDIT. We REALLY need to stop using the word 'saved' the way prots do. Let us stick with Born Again/Regenerated/In Christ etc etc. Whether or not one of the Regenerate goes to heaven depends on whether or not they finish the race.

Author:  MyDogma8MyKarma [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the loss of salvation

Except 'saved' is mentioned numerous times in the Bible. And it is our Book.

I'm just sayin'....

I do agree with not using it with the Protestant bent, but I disagree on never using it. Too many things have been absconded by the Protestants from us and then perverted.

Author:  pax [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the loss of salvation

MyDogma8MyKarma wrote:
Except 'saved' is mentioned numerous times in the Bible. And it is our Book.

I'm just sayin'....

I do agree with not using it with the Protestant bent, but I disagree on never using it. Too many things have been absconded by the Protestants from us and then perverted.


I know what you and metal are sayin'. However, the reason we need to use saved as the Prots do in this case is to determine just how they perceive salvation, and to get them to see that their doctrine concerning OSAS really is just a perversion of the true doctrines concerning regeneration and predestination. What perverts the doctrine is the idea that they can personally know if they are saved or not. Assurances we can have. But we also know it ain't over until the fat angel blows the trumpet.

The guy who shoots up the post office after a life of devotion to Jesus has neither lost a salvation he never possessed, nor proven that he never really loved Jesus.

So, what has happened?

Author:  Candlemass [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the loss of salvation

...overdue mail?

Author:  pax [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the loss of salvation

Candlemass wrote:
...overdue mail?


Where does it say in the Bible that mail has to be delivered on time?

Author:  Candlemass [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the loss of salvation

It doesn't, but I believe it's in Luther's confessions.

Author:  pax [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the loss of salvation

Candlemass wrote:
It doesn't, but I believe it's in Luther's confessions.


Its a man-made tradition, then.

Author:  Candlemass [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the loss of salvation

"Going Postal" always is! :twisted:

Author:  Doom [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the loss of salvation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL6ubXD9ZjY

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