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 Post subject: Protestant priest
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:53 pm 
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Jedi Padawan
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I have one question. Is it ok that an Protestant priest holds the Preaching at mass when it is a echumenical mass? I feel its wrong, just my stomach feeling.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:55 pm 
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No that is not correct. Only an ordained Deacon or Priest may Preach at Mass. Not even a layman can preach at Mass, let along someone who isn't Catholic.

I don't know what an ecumenical Mass is, but it sounds scary.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:27 am 
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Jedi Padawan
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Yes, it sounds, and is pretty scary. The problem with my church is that most of the people in the church board is liberals from the happy 60's, who think married woman priests are the way to go.

Is there any circumstances that the protestant priest may be allowed to speak at the mass?

They also have Childrens mass once a month, where they have a group of people who plays guitar and keyboard, and its just horrible. Lots of lutheran songs (at least I think they are) and they sing the our father, and plays during communion.

I am so new, so I don't want to say to much about it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:12 am 
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viking wrote:
Yes, it sounds, and is pretty scary. The problem with my church is that most of the people in the church board is liberals from the happy 60's, who think married woman priests are the way to go.

Is there any circumstances that the protestant priest may be allowed to speak at the mass?

They also have Childrens mass once a month, where they have a group of people who plays guitar and keyboard, and its just horrible. Lots of lutheran songs (at least I think they are) and they sing the our father, and plays during communion.

I am so new, so I don't want to say to much about it.


Wow! Sounds pretty different from the way things are just across the fjord from you. Generally speaking, the Masses there are very good.

There is nothing, in and of itself, wrong with singing/chanting the Our Father and music during Communion, though, unless I'm horribly mistaken. There is, however, sometimes something horribly wrong with the tune, the instruments and the songs picked.

I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time already. It's difficult when you're a new convert and have to struggle with this in the only available church, as I assume there is only the one where you live. I'm keeping you in my prayers.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:43 am 
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If it's a Mass, it can't be ecumenical. You can have non-Catholics present, yes, but the Mass itself is an endeavor of the Catholic Church.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:02 am 
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I think it would be proper to pray that this will not go ahead and leave the means by which that may happen to God.

May I ask if your priest speaks in favour married clergy (against discipline in the Latin rite) in his homilies, and if he speaks in favour of women priest (against Catholic doctrine) at any time?

Edited to add: There was a serious typo in the original, so that it read that married clergy was against doctrine in the Latin rite, but it obviously was supposed to read 'discipline in the Latin rite'. :oops:

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Last edited by Norwegianblue on Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:28 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:44 am 
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Alan or Allen? John Allen writes for the National Catholic Reporter, which is often critical of the Holy See. Allen's reporting, however, is usually pretty good.

Since I don't speak Norwegian and can't find a good online translator, I can't offer any thoughts about what he says on his blog.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:48 am 
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John Allen


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:57 am 
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Years ago we had a community church service (I think it was near Easter time, but it could have been around Christmas... I was young, and don't remember). Pastors from all the different churches in town (including the Catholic Priest) came and participated in some part of the service. The priest actually gave the sermon/homily.

I thought it was neat.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:05 pm 
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Didn't some priests in Europe get in trouble for holding an ecumenical Mass? I seem to recall a thread on it at some point. Big hullabaloo when it happened.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:55 pm 
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What are some rules that I can show to, to make my point more legimit?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:06 pm 
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viking wrote:
What are some rules that I can show to, to make my point more legimit?


From the GIRM

Quote:
The Homily

65. The homily is part of the Liturgy and is strongly recommended,63 for it is necessary for the nurturing of the Christian life. It should be an exposition of some aspect of the readings from Sacred Scripture or of another text from the Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day and should take into account both the mystery being celebrated and the particular needs of the listeners.64

66. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person.65 In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.

There is to be a homily on Sundays and holy days of obligation at all Masses that are celebrated with the participation of a congregation; it may not be omitted without a serious reason. It is recommended on other days, especially on the weekdays of Advent, Lent, and the Easter Season, as well as on other festive days and occasions when the people come to church in greater numbers.66



From Redemptionis Sacramentum

Quote:
2. Preaching

[161.] As was already noted above, the homily on account of its importance and its nature is reserved to the Priest or Deacon during Mass.[260] As regards other forms of preaching, if necessity demands it in particular circumstances, or if usefulness suggests it in special cases, lay members of Christ’s faithful may be allowed to preach in a church or in an oratory outside Mass in accordance with the norm of law.[261]

This may be done only on account of a scarcity of sacred ministers in certain places, in order to meet the need, and it may not be transformed from an exceptional measure into an ordinary practice, nor may it be understood as an authentic form of the advancement of the laity.[262] All must remember besides that the faculty for giving such permission belongs to the local Ordinary, and this as regards individual instances; this permission is not the competence of anyone else, even if they are Priests or Deacons.

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Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:28 pm 
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Jedi Padawan
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Thanks I hope I wont have to use it. I know the Redemptionis Sacramentum applies for norway, but what about the GIRM?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:33 pm 
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The GIRM is also universal. The Holy See can allow exceptions if a country's bishops ask for them, but I strongly doubt they'd allow anyone but an ordained Catholic to give a homily at a Mass.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:29 pm 
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Just to be pedantic, I am not aware of a single Protestant denomination that refers to its ministers as 'priests', save for a few Anglicans, but since many of them insist they aren't 'Protestant' out of politeness I won't press the point! :P

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:46 pm 
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viking wrote:
Thanks I hope I wont have to use it. I know the Redemptionis Sacramentum applies for norway, but what about the GIRM?


As Obi noted, the GIRM is universal.

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Whence are we to find words enough fully to tell the happiness of that marriage which the Church cements, and the Eucharistic oblation confirms, and the benediction signs and seals; which angels carry back the news of to heaven, which the Father holds as ratified? -Tertullian

Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:25 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Just to be pedantic, I am not aware of a single Protestant denomination that refers to its ministers as 'priests', save for a few Anglicans, but since many of them insist they aren't 'Protestant' out of politeness I won't press the point! :P


In Norwegian, the name for a Catholic priest and Lutheran minister (and Anglican clergyman for that sake) is the same: 'prest'.

Edited to add: btw, just explaining the likely reason why the word 'priest' was used and that a Norwegian person wouldn't automatically know this was not the case in English. I'm not suggesting this should be transferred to English, where usage is obviously different.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:55 pm 
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Depends on whether or not the Protestant was preaching the homily. Protestants may speak during the announcements.
Wide latitude is given to the music during Mass because of all the cultural differences and it's hard to come up with an all-encompassing rule other than that it should be "appropriate."

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:53 am 
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Norwegianblue wrote:
May I ask if your priest speaks in favour of married clergy (against doctrine in the Latin rite)...?


It's not allowed by the current rules of the Latin Rite but not a matter of doctrine. The rule can be modified even now - there are married former Anglican and Lutheran clergy who are now RC priests. And if it were doctrinal there wouldn't be married priests in the Eastern-rite Catholic churches, but in Eastern Europe and the Middle East there are.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:13 am 
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The young fogey wrote:
Norwegianblue wrote:
May I ask if your priest speaks in favour of married clergy (against doctrine in the Latin rite)...?


It's not allowed by the current rules of the Latin Rite but not a matter of doctrine. The rule can be modified even now - there are married former Anglican and Lutheran clergy who are now RC priests. And if it were doctrinal there wouldn't be married priests in the Eastern-rite Catholic churches, but in Eastern Europe and the Middle East there are.


Oh, sorry. I actually meant against discipline, and it was my intention to distinguish clearly between married clergy (discipline) and ordination of women (doctrine). Thanks for picking up on the typo. I'll go back and correct the original to avoid misunderstandings. :oops:

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