Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 23 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:53 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 5:50 am
Posts: 97
Religion: Converting
Is it super hard to sing the Gospel in a psalm tone and being heard without a microphone? Does this mean that before the mic was invented people back in the church could not hear the Gospel or the Priest or Deacon preaching?
Some opera singers say they are not trained to speak but only to sing. They find talking with real power hard. I guess a Priest would find singing the homily with power much easiet which it is. My vocal teacher told me he has heard people sing the homily but I did not ask when he heard it. It could have been in a Catholic or Lutheran church.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:56 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82879
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Most places aren't designed for acoustics, sad to say. Talking with power is hard.

In pre-Vatican II days, the Gospel wasn't read for the congregation hear anyhow (though it may have happened sometimes).

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:26 pm 
Offline
Prodigal Son of Thunder
Prodigal Son of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:54 am
Posts: 40473
Location: Ithilien
Religion: Dunedain Catholic
Church Affiliations: AWC, CSB, UIGSE-FSE (FNE)
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Most places aren't designed for acoustics, sad to say. Talking with power is hard.

In pre-Vatican II days, the Gospel wasn't read for the congregation hear anyhow (though it may have happened sometimes).

It might be read in vernacular at the pulpit before the sermon.

Anyway, older churches probably have better acoustics overall - no sound killing carpet, for one.

_________________
Formerly Bagheera

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the King." (1 Peter 2:17)
Federation of North-American Explorers - North Star Group - How You Can Help


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:00 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 5:50 am
Posts: 97
Religion: Converting
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Most places aren't designed for acoustics, sad to say. Talking with power is hard.

In pre-Vatican II days, the Gospel wasn't read for the congregation hear anyhow (though it may have happened sometimes).

So newer churches are build with no good acustics in mind line in the older days?
People actually thought about acoustics in the old days?
Anyway, I think using psalm tones no mic is needed.

Why wasn't it read for the congregation?
Even today if a Priests say the OF alone he does not read it for a congregation.
I guess there are are resons for reading it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:08 pm 
Offline
Eminent
Eminent
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:59 am
Posts: 16705
Religion: Католик
Without microphones, a speaker would have to speak aloud.

Many churches nowadays have a better sound system with some sound speakers spread throughout the building.

_________________
ABORTUS NECNON INFANTICIDIUM NEFANDA SUNT CRIMINA.

Abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes. (Gaudium et Spes, 51)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:19 am 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 5:50 am
Posts: 97
Religion: Converting
lbt wrote:
Without microphones, a speaker would have to speak aloud.

Many churches nowadays have a better sound system with some sound speakers spread throughout the building.

yes but we are too much into technology instead of using the acoustics.
it has had a bad effect on us. Nowadays people sing with microphones instead of using their full potentials as singers.
I dislike micrphones other than for special occassions or for recording stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:27 am 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76656
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
Not giving the singer a microphone sounds like a great idea cuz I don't want to hear them anyway

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:14 am 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:02 pm
Posts: 12450
Location: Ultima Thule
Religion: Catholic
In my opinion, it is certainly not ideal for singers to use microphones at Mass.

_________________
'The only cure for sagging or fainting faith is Communion.... Like the act of Faith it must be continuous and grow by exercise. Frequency is of the highest effect. Seven times a week is more nourishing than seven times at intervals.'
J.R.R. Tolkien

Blasé member of PPPA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:05 am 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 5:50 am
Posts: 97
Religion: Converting
Norwegianblue wrote:
In my opinion, it is certainly not ideal for singers to use microphones at Mass.

Is it easier to sing without a microphone? Why would that be?
I take singing lessons and never use a microphone at all. Are people who need a mic singers who do not have powerful voices?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:07 pm 
Offline
Trophy Dwarf
Trophy Dwarf
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 34713
Location: Here in the center holding my bleeding heart...
Religion: Catholic Convert
Church Affiliations: Dorothy Day Guild
ingenting wrote:
Norwegianblue wrote:
In my opinion, it is certainly not ideal for singers to use microphones at Mass.

Is it easier to sing without a microphone? Why would that be?
I take singing lessons and never use a microphone at all. Are people who need a mic singers who do not have powerful voices?


As every singer in the Met Opera or Broadway show I've ever seen is Mic'd, I'd hardly say it has anything to do with the power of the voices.

In my church, it was built 1908, we used to have a shell behind the ambo to direct sound. We have a very vaulted ceiling, in the past it had hard floors, and we have a wonderful choir loft. It is a joy to stand in that loft and sing.

Now that we have carpeted floors, a PA system is required.

Have you had a public performance yet? You will likely be mic'd or the stage will be mic'd.

_________________
Living life on prayers and hooks and needles...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:42 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:04 pm
Posts: 567
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th KofC
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Most places aren't designed for acoustics, sad to say. Talking with power is hard.

In pre-Vatican II days, the Gospel wasn't read for the congregation hear anyhow (though it may have happened sometimes).

Are you saying the Gospel was in Latin? That's not how I remember it. In fact as a child, I used to read the gospel along with the priest and was fascinated by it.

Later on, I was an altar boy (in the early '50s) and the readings were virtually the same as they are now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:33 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:04 am
Posts: 6413
Location: "Fish-shape Paumanok where I was born"
Religion: Catholic of the Roman Rite
kage_ar wrote:
In my church, it was built 1908, we used to have a shell behind the ambo to direct sound. We have a very vaulted ceiling, in the past it had hard floors, and we have a wonderful choir loft. It is a joy to stand in that loft and sing.


If you look at old pulpits (or at least those that have been left as originally constructed), they almost always had a sounding board, or "tester", either directly above or behind the preacher. In some churches, the pulpit would be built some distance into the congregation so that preachers could be heard more easily. I remember the old configuration of St. Paul the Apostle (the headquarters of the Paulist Fathers) in New York, before the seating was rearranged a few years back. The Paulist Fathers were renowned preachers, and would have "missions" and the like involving preaching outside of mass. The high pulpit was therefore about halfway down the nave on the right side, and all of the pews between the pulpit and the altar had hinged backs, so that they could be flipped over to allow people to sit in those pews while facing the preacher, rather than the altar.

Vern Humphrey wrote:
Are you saying the Gospel was in Latin? That's not how I remember it. In fact as a child, I used to read the gospel along with the priest and was fascinated by it.

You remember incorrectly. The epistle and gospel were both in Latin. The epistle was first read with the missal placed on the right (or liturgical "south") side of the altar, and after that the missal was carried (occasionally in procession, with lights and a thurifer) to the left, or "north" side of the altar, where the gospel would be read. After the gospel had been read in Latin from the missal while facing the altar, the priest would go to the pulpit (facing the people) for the sermon. It was a common practice for the priest first to read an English translation of the gospel from the pulpit before the sermon, but it was not required, and it technically was not an official part of the Mass.

Quote:
Later on, I was an altar boy (in the early '50s) and the readings were virtually the same as they are now.

Again your memory has let you down. The readings were different not only in their language, but also in their number and their arrangement. During the mass, there were only two readings, consisting of an Epistle and a Gospel. There was no first reading from the Old Testament, and there was no Psalm other than what was found in the Gradual for the day, if there was one. Furthermore, the missal had only a single annual cycle for readings, and as a result many readings we now hear at mass as part of the three-year cycle of the current lectionary were never used at all.

_________________
BOSWELL: "Have not they vexed yourself a little, Sir? Have not you been vexed by all the turbulence of this reign?"
JOHNSON: "Sir, I have never slept an hour less, nor eat an ounce less meat. I would have knocked the factious dogs on the head, to be sure; but I was not vexed."


Last edited by Custos on Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:43 am 
Offline
Prodigal Son of Thunder
Prodigal Son of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:54 am
Posts: 40473
Location: Ithilien
Religion: Dunedain Catholic
Church Affiliations: AWC, CSB, UIGSE-FSE (FNE)
Vern Humphrey wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Most places aren't designed for acoustics, sad to say. Talking with power is hard.

In pre-Vatican II days, the Gospel wasn't read for the congregation hear anyhow (though it may have happened sometimes).

Are you saying the Gospel was in Latin? That's not how I remember it. In fact as a child, I used to read the gospel along with the priest and was fascinated by it.

Yes, the Gospel would have been read (or sung) in Latin at the altar, but the practice in many places was to read it in the vernacular afterwards from the ambo prior to the sermon.

Quote:
Later on, I was an altar boy (in the early '50s) and the readings were virtually the same as they are now.

Very doubtful!

_________________
Formerly Bagheera

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the King." (1 Peter 2:17)
Federation of North-American Explorers - North Star Group - How You Can Help


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:43 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76656
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
It is absolutely impossible that the readings could have been the same. The current 3 year lectionary cycle was not introduced until 1970. Before the Novus Ordo, there was only a one year cycle. The gospel was read in Latin at the alter by a priest with his back to the congregation and it was read at a volume that wasn't audible to the congregation. It is quite impossible that you could have been following along, unless they read the reading in English in the pulpit before the homily. I don't know how common that was, but it has never happened at any of the Latin Masses I've attended.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:14 am 
Offline
Prodigal Son of Thunder
Prodigal Son of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:54 am
Posts: 40473
Location: Ithilien
Religion: Dunedain Catholic
Church Affiliations: AWC, CSB, UIGSE-FSE (FNE)
It really must be said that how Latin Masses are celebrated today is not necessarily how they were celebrated in the past. It's very possible that there were liturgical abuses at the parish Vern Humphrey grew up in. Still pretty unlikely that the readings were the same.

_________________
Formerly Bagheera

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the King." (1 Peter 2:17)
Federation of North-American Explorers - North Star Group - How You Can Help


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:16 am 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:04 pm
Posts: 567
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th KofC
Peregrinator wrote:
It really must be said that how Latin Masses are celebrated today is not necessarily how they were celebrated in the past. It's very possible that there were liturgical abuses at the parish Vern Humphrey grew up in. Still pretty unlikely that the readings were the same.

By "the same," I don't mean the same verses, I mean the same language. At Immaculate Conception in Lake Charles, LA, the readings were in English.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:55 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76656
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
Vern Humphrey wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
It really must be said that how Latin Masses are celebrated today is not necessarily how they were celebrated in the past. It's very possible that there were liturgical abuses at the parish Vern Humphrey grew up in. Still pretty unlikely that the readings were the same.

By "the same," I don't mean the same verses, I mean the same language. At Immaculate Conception in Lake Charles, LA, the readings were in English.


There are three possibilities:

Either your memory is mistaken, or there were serious liturgical abuses or you attended a parish where they read the reading a second time in English before the homily as Perginator mentioned.

Actually, I just thought of a fourth possibility, you might be thinking of the brief period between Vatican II and the publication of the Novus Ordo in 1970 when some places offered a hybrid Mass, where the TLM was offered in English.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:58 pm 
Offline
Prodigal Son of Thunder
Prodigal Son of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:54 am
Posts: 40473
Location: Ithilien
Religion: Dunedain Catholic
Church Affiliations: AWC, CSB, UIGSE-FSE (FNE)
There was a time in France during which the lessons were read out in the vernacular by a reader while the priest read them at the altar in Latin. I haven't heard of this practice being done in the United States but I guess it is barely possible.

_________________
Formerly Bagheera

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the King." (1 Peter 2:17)
Federation of North-American Explorers - North Star Group - How You Can Help


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:49 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:04 pm
Posts: 567
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th KofC
Peregrinator wrote:
There was a time in France during which the lessons were read out in the vernacular by a reader while the priest read them at the altar in Latin. I haven't heard of this practice being done in the United States but I guess it is barely possible.

Could be -- this was, of course a French church, albeit Arcadian.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do we really need microphones?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:30 am 
Offline
Paladin
Paladin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:12 am
Posts: 6675
Location: Filii Tonitrui
Religion: Catholic
Doom wrote:
The gospel was read in Latin at the alter by a priest with his back to the congregation and it was read at a volume that wasn't audible to the congregation.


In a sung Mass it is audible.
In a low Mass it isn't (low Mass shouldn't really exist for a congregation anyway).

When the Gospel is read at the altar the priest's back is not completely facing the people as he tries to position himself at an angle facing left -or really, facing the "right" side of the altar as the altar is supposed to represent Christ and the Gospel is read at Christ's right side. I think it's supposed to signify the Gospel message being universal as the missal is transferred from the left side (old Covenant) of the altar to the right side (new Covenant) just before reading the Gospel.

Finally, in a Solemn High Mass the priest sings the Gospel completely facing that rightward direction, so the people in a typical-traditional parish Church will see the priests left side.

_________________
-Alexander
"The proof of love is to suffer for the one you love." -St. Pio


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 23 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


Jump to: