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 Post subject: Thy Kingdom Come.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:28 am 
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A number of times during the day we say (pray), “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done”. And yet, when we look at the world today, it seems to be going in the opposite direction. Am I wrong? How should I view this?

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 Post subject: Re: Thy Kingdom Come.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:41 am 
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I guess I don't understand your question.... :|

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 Post subject: Re: Thy Kingdom Come.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:41 pm 
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His kingdom is both here already in the church, and also yet to come in eternity. Praying for His divine will is always a good prayer to say.

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 Post subject: Re: Thy Kingdom Come.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:47 pm 
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I do know that there is no actual kingdom, but that our Lord is our King. When we pray for "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" I somehow expect that the world should improve. However it is going in the opposite direction. I was a teenager during world war two. The churches were packed. Now when many people appear to be more properous the churches are virually empty.
I do not know why this should be the case. Do people only pray when they are in need.?

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 Post subject: Re: Thy Kingdom Come.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:46 am 
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We are kingdom people. Like Saint Joseph and the Virgin Mary, we have a part in bringing the Kingdom of God into our world. We participate in ushering in the Kingdom of God.(Loyola Press)

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 Post subject: Re: Thy Kingdom Come.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:47 am 
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The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, joy.
God's justice brings, righteousness, peace, joy.
God said that he always responds to faithfulness.. as described here:
Luke 18:
7Will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry out to Him day and night? Will He continue to defer their help? 8I tell you, He will promptly carry out justice on their behalf. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?”

Stuff just doesnt happen because we wish it would. We are in constant spiritual war. Prayer is an assault on enemy territory. They dont just say ...ok fine. They resist. Jesus said resist right back. Paul (I think) said 'Hold fast to that which is good'.

The kingdom of God suffers violence... and the violent take it by force. Daniel took it by force.

For example God heard and responded immediately to Daniel. He kept his word that the fervent prayer of a righteous man avails. He does the same with everyone every time.

The key to success was Daniel's unwavering faith til he got what he asked for. Daniel exercised faith. In this case, through his persistence in fasting. Faith without works (evidence) is dead. Faith requires more than lip service. Abraham exercised his faith through his tithe... he put his money where his mouth was.

Daniel exercised faith through his fast which apparently can be a very powerful expression of faith ... (These only come out by prayer and fasting)

Daniel 10:
Then he said to me, "Do not be afraid, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart on understanding this and on humbling yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to your words. 13"But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia. 14"Now I have come to give you an understanding...

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 Post subject: Re: Thy Kingdom Come.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:41 am 
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I fully agree BUT???

I have been very happily married for 60 years, to an agnostic woman. She just cannot acept that there is a God when she looks at todays world. Most young couples do not get married anymore including our grand children. Mosques are beiing bombed. The churches are empty.
There is violence everywhere. We live in South Africa and the current government is VERY corrupt.

I am living and praying like a 'stay at home monk'. I just don't understand it any more, if ever I did.

"Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven??" I am lost. What is God's will???

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"The real aim of all spiritual growth is to become your true self." (Thomas Merton)


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 Post subject: Re: Thy Kingdom Come.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:49 am 
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Whenever I hit a serious snag in my spiritual growth I try to remember to return to the basics. The world we see around us IS, in many instances, corrupt and opposed to God; but not everywhere and not always. Look for ways to grow closer to him (prayer, Bible study, attend parish events) and give yourself to others in need.

Q. Why did God make you?
A. God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him for ever in heaven.
 

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 Post subject: Re: Thy Kingdom Come.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:02 pm 
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From the Catechism:

567 The kingdom of heaven was inaugurated on earth by Christ. "This kingdom shone out before men in the word, in the works and in the presence of Christ" (LG 5). The Church is the seed and beginning of this kingdom. Its keys are entrusted to Peter.

669 As Lord, Christ is also head of the Church, which is his Body.552 Taken up to heaven and glorified after he had thus fully accomplished his mission, Christ dwells on earth in his Church. The redemption is the source of the authority that Christ, by virtue of the Holy Spirit, exercises over the Church. "The kingdom of Christ [is] already present in mystery", "on earth, the seed and the beginning of the kingdom".553

764 "This Kingdom shines out before men in the word, in the works and in the presence of Christ."163 To welcome Jesus' word is to welcome "the Kingdom itself."164 The seed and beginning of the Kingdom are the "little flock" of those whom Jesus came to gather around him, the flock whose shepherd he is.165 They form Jesus' true family.166 To those whom he thus gathered around him, he taught a new "way of acting" and a prayer of their own.167

768 So that she can fulfill her mission, the Holy Spirit "bestows upon [the Church] varied hierarchic and charismatic gifts, and in this way directs her."177 "Henceforward the Church, endowed with the gifts of her founder and faithfully observing his precepts of charity, humility and self-denial, receives the mission of proclaiming and establishing among all peoples the Kingdom of Christ and of God, and she is on earth the seed and the beginning of that kingdom."178

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 Post subject: Re: Thy Kingdom Come.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:11 am 
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I have been struggling for some time.
However there is only one solution to my problem. FAITH.
I must trust that God knows best and that I must leave it in ‘his hands’.
And then I must do my best in my own environment.

I wish to thank the people above for their inputs. I has been a great help to me.

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Ewald
"The real aim of all spiritual growth is to become your true self." (Thomas Merton)


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 Post subject: Re: Thy Kingdom Come.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:12 pm 
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Muirfield wrote:
I do know that there is no actual kingdom, but that our Lord is our King. When we pray for "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven" I somehow expect that the world should improve. However it is going in the opposite direction. I was a teenager during world war two. The churches were packed. Now when many people appear to be more properous the churches are virually empty.
I do not know why this should be the case. Do people only pray when they are in need.?

The Catholic church is holding onto its members more than most denominational churches. A man on a Facebook group asked, "WILL CHRIST RETURN TO AN INEFFECTIVE CHURCH"? All denominational churches were packed 50-60 plus years ago. Both Pew and Barna have surveys that show just how bad church attendance has dropped in the last 20 or so years. I have my own opinion as to what has caused this decline.

Young people find most 'churches' irrelevant, boring and redundant. That's esp. true about Denominational churches. Every Sunday is nothing more than a repetitious time of singing, liturgy, prayers, communion, announcements, etc. the same every Sunday. That does nothing for most people - both young and old.

There's a couple of new terms for these folks, the Dones and the Nones.

The internet and television have contributed to Christianity's demise. Both believers and unbelievers see all the disagreements, the hypocrisy, judgmentalism, etc. They all disagree with one another and even condemn one another over those disagreements.

IFB'S, Calvinist, Pre-tribbers, and KJV only folks are a BAD influence on the unbelieving world. Seventh Day Adventist are the worse for condemning over a billion Sunday worshippers and claiming that "the BEASTS" emerge from within Catholicism. Trinitarians - regardless of Denomination - also bring a lot of judgmentalism into the mix.

Christians are Christianity's worse enemy. They are the #1 cause of Atheism in the world. The bible is the 2nd cause of Atheism AND Agnosticism.

Between the bible and Christians, the average person's opinion is of Christianity reflects what we all see in people like Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen, Ken Copeland, Todd White, Paula White, Joyce Meyer, Joseph Prince, Jesse Duplantis, etc. These people reflect what Christianity is about! Then, to top it all off - unbelievers tend to think the Pope represents ALL of Christianity. Unbelievers see one church demonize one another. Protestants seem to enjoy Catholic bashing and pope demonization, and they are full of misinformation and outright lies.

And then, - you have people who say the KJV is the only accurate bible - and all the other translations are Satanic bibles straight from the pits of hell! Then you have SDA'S who condemn over a billion brothers and sisters in the faith for going to church on Sundays claiming it's the mark of the beast! Then you have the Trinity doctrine and supporters who CONDEMN others for rejecting it. Thousands were tortured and murdered...it's endless. All these things contribute to low church attendance, Agnosticism and Atheism.

The two main causes will always stand. Christians and the bible are the two major forces driving people OUT of church and into apathy, irrelevance, Agnosticism and Atheism today. Considering all this, they see no logical reason to believe in a God whose followers are judgmental, offensive, and hypocritical.


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