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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:12 am 
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Doom wrote:
... as long as the story is good, no one will care.


Have you been in the culture during this current century? I would suggest the following modification to your sentence:

"...as long as the story is woke, everyone will be required to care."

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:24 pm 
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Highlander wrote:
Doom wrote:
... as long as the story is good, no one will care.


Have you been in the culture during this current century? I would suggest the following modification to your sentence:

"...as long as the story is woke, everyone will be required to care."


Wokeism goes against human nature, and anything against human nature fails.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:16 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Highlander wrote:
Doom wrote:
... as long as the story is good, no one will care.


Have you been in the culture during this current century? I would suggest the following modification to your sentence:

"...as long as the story is woke, everyone will be required to care."


Wokeism goes against human nature, and anything against human nature fails.


Ja! Now put your hands behind your back and climb into the cattle car. It's a long ride to the gas chamber.


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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:42 pm 
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Doom wrote:
... anything against human nature fails.


Perhaps, and hopefully, in the long term, you are correct. However, in the short term ... not so much.

I offer the Killing Fields, where about 1.4M Cambodians dies from 1975 to 1979. Another .3 to .9 M died of disease and starvation. So, of out a population of about 8M, between 21% - 31% were directly or indirectly killed. It was ended only by a North Vietnamese invasion. Sitting around and accepting that situation is probably against human nature .... or was it?

I also offer one of my favorite example of humans accepting affronts against nature ... Stalin's Great Purge (as opposed to the many smaller purges). Particularly the Moscow Show Trials of 1936-1938.

In these, and many other cases, hordes of people meekly walked to their slaughter. I would think that is against human nature. Sort of like middle class parents putting the education of their children into the hands of the woke State.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:57 pm 
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Highlander wrote:
Doom wrote:
... anything against human nature fails.


Perhaps, and hopefully, in the long term, you are correct. However, in the short term ... not so much.

I offer the Killing Fields, where about 1.4M Cambodians dies from 1975 to 1979. Another .3 to .9 M died of disease and starvation. So, of out a population of about 8M, between 21% - 31% were directly or indirectly killed. It was ended only by a North Vietnamese invasion. Sitting around and accepting that situation is probably against human nature .... or was it?

I also offer one of my favorite example of humans accepting affronts against nature ... Stalin's Great Purge (as opposed to the many smaller purges). Particularly the Moscow Show Trials of 1936-1938.

In these, and many other cases, hordes of people meekly walked to their slaughter. I would think that is against human nature. Sort of like middle class parents putting the education of their children into the hands of the woke State.


That is hardly an appropriate analogy

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:52 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Highlander wrote:
Doom wrote:
... anything against human nature fails.


Perhaps, and hopefully, in the long term, you are correct. However, in the short term ... not so much.

I offer the Killing Fields, where about 1.4M Cambodians dies from 1975 to 1979. Another .3 to .9 M died of disease and starvation. So, of out a population of about 8M, between 21% - 31% were directly or indirectly killed. It was ended only by a North Vietnamese invasion. Sitting around and accepting that situation is probably against human nature .... or was it?

I also offer one of my favorite example of humans accepting affronts against nature ... Stalin's Great Purge (as opposed to the many smaller purges). Particularly the Moscow Show Trials of 1936-1938.

In these, and many other cases, hordes of people meekly walked to their slaughter. I would think that is against human nature. Sort of like middle class parents putting the education of their children into the hands of the woke State.


That is hardly an appropriate analogy


I think you might expand a little on your assertion. With some historical footnotes.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:17 am 
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My point is that it is against human nature to stand around waiting to be murdered. In the case of Pol Pot and Stalin, that is exactly what millions of Cambodians and Russians did ... until events removed the murderer.

Lot of Americans seem to be standing around while basic Constitutional rights and liberties are being removed.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:24 am 
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Highlander wrote:
My point is that it is against human nature to stand around waiting to be murdered. In the case of Pol Pot and Stalin, that is exactly what millions of Cambodians and Russians did ... until events removed the murderer.

Lot of Americans seem to be standing around while basic Constitutional rights and liberties are being removed.

I once had an internet discussion with someone opposed to anyone owning guns. I pointed out what happened during the Holocaust.

The reply was, "Don't be ridiculous! If the Jews had resisted, they'd all have been killed!

As Uncle Herbivore says, "Stupidity is exasperating. Willful ignorance is bullet-proof."


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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:46 am 
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I finished Chapterhouse Dune yesterday, so I can now say that I read the entire Dune series....which feels like an accomplishment of sorts, although truthfully the series could have and probably should have ended after Children of Dune, the remaining books feel like a completely different series. It was a big mistake to start God Emperor of Dune 3500 years later, with all the characters from the first 3 books dead. That makes the remaining books difficult to get into since you have a different cast of characters. Granted, Narnia does the same kind of thing, gradually cycling out the characters from the first novel, but he does it organically and gradually, it isn't abrupt like it is in Dune.

Next up is going to be an even more ambitious series, I'm finally going to start Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, this one is going to take me a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:56 am 
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Doom wrote:
I finished Chapterhouse Dune yesterday, so I can now say that I read the entire Dune series....which feels like an accomplishment of sorts, although truthfully the series could have and probably should have ended after Children of Dune, the remaining books feel like a completely different series. It was a big mistake to start God Emperor of Dune 3500 years later, with all the characters from the first 3 books dead. That makes the remaining books difficult to get into since you have a different cast of characters. Granted, Narnia does the same kind of thing, gradually cycling out the characters from the first novel, but he does it organically and gradually, it isn't abrupt like it is in Dune.

Next up is going to be an even more ambitious series, I'm finally going to start Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, this one is going to take me a while.



Let us know how it goes. Though I bought every title in the series, I never got into it.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:14 am 
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GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
I finished Chapterhouse Dune yesterday, so I can now say that I read the entire Dune series....which feels like an accomplishment of sorts, although truthfully the series could have and probably should have ended after Children of Dune, the remaining books feel like a completely different series. It was a big mistake to start God Emperor of Dune 3500 years later, with all the characters from the first 3 books dead. That makes the remaining books difficult to get into since you have a different cast of characters. Granted, Narnia does the same kind of thing, gradually cycling out the characters from the first novel, but he does it organically and gradually, it isn't abrupt like it is in Dune.

Next up is going to be an even more ambitious series, I'm finally going to start Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, this one is going to take me a while.



Let us know how it goes. Though I bought every title in the series, I never got into it.


Well, technically, I guess I'll be reading the first volume, if I don't like it or find it difficult to get into, I probably won't continue. I've never read any Robert Jordan so I don't know what he is like as an author.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:40 am 
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I was encouraged by progeny, for years, to read Jordan. To me it smacked of the Sword of Sha-na-na. I never began.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:41 am 
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Highlander wrote:
I was encouraged by progeny, for years, to read Jordan. To me it smacked of the Sword of Sha-na-na. I never began.



Jordan/Rigney was a semi-local and there was much about him to like. Met him a couple of times, got Wheel books signed, gave them to my child, who read them all. I read only maybe 100 pages of book 1. I figured it would be much of a muchness and what if he died before he tied it all up (Hello, George). And so it was. Alas.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:33 pm 
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Highlander wrote:
I was encouraged by progeny, for years, to read Jordan. To me it smacked of the Sword of Sha-na-na. I never began.


Unlike most science fiction and fantasy authors (or at least most of the ones I read) Robert Jordan was a Christian, so unlike with authors such as Arthur C Clarke, Issac Asimov, Douglas Adams George RR Martin and Frank Herbert, i think I probably won't have to compartmentalize the anti-Christisn or anti-theistic parts of the story. I would even include Orson Scott Card among the authors I need to compartmentalize, because he often introduces crypto-Mormonism into his novels.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:26 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Highlander wrote:
I was encouraged by progeny, for years, to read Jordan. To me it smacked of the Sword of Sha-na-na. I never began.


Unlike most science fiction and fantasy authors (or at least most of the ones I read) Robert Jordan was a Christian, so unlike with authors such as Arthur C Clarke, Issac Asimov, Douglas Adams George RR Martin and Frank Herbert, i think I probably won't have to compartmentalize the anti-Christisn or anti-theistic parts of the story. I would even include Orson Scott Card among the authors I need to compartmentalize, because he often introduces crypto-Mormonism into his novels.



Regular communicant, as reported.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:08 pm 
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As I discussed with my elder just today, "Why read Jordan when you can read LOTR again?"

I also pointed out that when Chapter 1 of some book I am considering begins, something like --

"Garvin Farmerson(daughter), the sturdy son (daughter) of Old Farmer Farmerson stood in the shade of the gorkle tree, which shielded the farmstead gate. The gate opened up to the Travelroad that traced its way from far off mystic places to the hamlet of Funsterwald, just two furlongs down toward the River Styx. Whilst daydreaming about leaving his/her/hisx humble and impoverished boy (girl)hood home, with its cow milking and furrow furrowing and rustic cottage, Garvin noted several travelers coming along the road toward him.

One, dressed in all green, was playing a merry tune on a fife. Another had on a tall, conical grey hat ... he was old and serious. One was small and squat with dwarfish attire. And the last member of the party was a tall, pale, and thin woman, with pointy ears and a great yew bow strapped to her wispy back. Dark clouds were forming in the distance from whence they had come.

The party paused at the gate, all looked at him, and the old man said in a stentorian whisper, "My name is Goodgulf Greyteeth, and I am mysterious. Wanna go adventuring?"


-- I immediately put the book back on the shelf. Or click to the next Amazon recommendation.

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Benedicamus Domino!
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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:55 pm 
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GKC wrote:
I figured it would be much of a muchness and what if he died before he tied it all up (Hello, George). And so it was. Alas.

Hmmm, yes, with the caveat that I've not read any of it, at least Jordan made arrangements for someone to finish up the series.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:00 pm 
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Highlander wrote:
As I discussed with my elder just today, "Why read Jordan when you can read LOTR again?"


Fundamentalists often ask me why I should bother reading any fiction at all when I can just read the Bible.

My answer would be the same, because reading other books expands your mind and perspective.

I've read LOTR 3 times, which is the same number of times I've read The Three Musketeers and it's sequels, Dracula, A Canticle for Leibowicz, and the Narnia series. If I ever feel the itch, I might read it again, although it us unusual for me to read the same book as many as 4 times. I doubt even Tolkien would agree with the idea that there is no other book worth reading. I really think he would say 'I appreciate that you like my book enough to read it three times, but you know there are other books...'

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:07 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
GKC wrote:
I figured it would be much of a muchness and what if he died before he tied it all up (Hello, George). And so it was. Alas.

Hmmm, yes, with the caveat that I've not read any of it, at least Jordan made arrangements for someone to finish up the series.

As did William Manchester with his Winston Churchill trilogy of biographies. (A series I read last year) And in both cases, a lot of it was already written, along with notes about how to complete it. When he died, he was working on the final book and said he would finish the series in one book even if it was 3000 pages long. Apparently, he wasn't joking about the length required since Sanderson needed three volumes to fit everything in.

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 Post subject: Re: Dune Trailer
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:37 pm 
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Highlander wrote:
As I discussed with my elder just today, "Why read Jordan when you can read LOTR again?"

I also pointed out that when Chapter 1 of some book I am considering begins, something like --

"Garvin Farmerson(daughter), the sturdy son (daughter) of Old Farmer Farmerson stood in the shade of the gorkle tree, which shielded the farmstead gate. The gate opened up to the Travelroad that traced its way from far off mystic places to the hamlet of Funsterwald, just two furlongs down toward the River Styx. Whilst daydreaming about leaving his/her/hisx humble and impoverished boy (girl)hood home, with its cow milking and furrow furrowing and rustic cottage, Garvin noted several travelers coming along the road toward him.

One, dressed in all green, was playing a merry tune on a fife. Another had on a tall, conical grey hat ... he was old and serious. One was small and squat with dwarfish attire. And the last member of the party was a tall, pale, and thin woman, with pointy ears and a great yew bow strapped to her wispy back. Dark clouds were forming in the distance from whence they had come.

The party paused at the gate, all looked at him, and the old man said in a stentorian whisper, "My name is Goodgulf Greyteeth, and I am mysterious. Wanna go adventuring?"


-- I immediately put the book back on the shelf. Or click to the next Amazon recommendation.


I think you were overly hasty. This is the one with the Funsterwald Rangers in it.

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