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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:31 am 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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Peetem wrote:
So even if only a fraction of the data in the VAERS database is accurate concerning adverse reactions to the mRNA vaccines, its still a much larger number, as a percentage, than those who were seriously ill from the swine flu vaccine.....and its use was halted.

Well it's not a much larger number, first (1/100,000 vs. 1/42,000 assuming full vaccination [283 out of c. 12,000,000] only among 16-24s) and Guillain-Barre Syndrome is more serious than vaccine-induced myocarditis/pericarditis.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:09 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
gherkin wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Your getting vaccinated would protect that person.

That's too hyper-theoretical to use as some kind of action guidance.

Not really, especially if you know such people.

Bracketing the "especially..." part to acknowledge that some people who closely associate with particularly fragile folks who can't get vaccinated might for that reason derive greater motivation to get vaccinated themselves....

I disagree. It is hyper-theoretical to say that my getting vaccinated could protect a fragile person, and try to use that as motivation to get vaccinated. Yes, it could possibly protect a fragile person, for sure. Or it could make me feel sick after my vaccination so that I get distracted and confused while driving and plow into a schoolbus full of children, who all die in the resulting massive fire. I mean, that's certainly possible. Or it could do both.

How do I weigh the bus crash outcome, and a billion others I could dream up, against the potential outcome you've dreamed up? In fact, I cannot. And I don't bother.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:52 pm 
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Given the fact that you know that there exist vulnerable people who can't (for one reason or another) be vaccinated, or who (say) derive little benefit from vaccines because they are immuno-compromised or -suppressed, then why do you call this scenario hyper-theoretical? I'm simply not following your logic at all. The only question would be, well, how many of these people exist? I say "especially" because it's not theoretical at all if you know and interact, perhaps even live, with people who fall into one of these categories.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:56 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Besides, if they are vaccinated based on the information that gets pounded into us by the government and the media ad infinitum, then they have nothing to fear from me, right?

What if someone else can't be vaccinated because of some other circumstance (allergy, etc.)? Your getting vaccinated would protect that person.

At the risk of sounding cold-hearted, I will prioritize my innate sense of self-preservation over the infinitesimal chance of encountering that rare individual (for whom the CDC contraindicates all of the COVID vaccines) in close, confined quarters for a period of time greater than 15 minutes.
The odds of me developing thrombosis as a result of the vaccine are far greater, and the consequences of such a development are more dire.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:17 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
The odds of me developing thrombosis as a result of the vaccine are far greater

What are the odds of this, especially in comparison with the odds of developing it as a result of getting covid?

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:54 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
The odds of me developing thrombosis as a result of the vaccine are far greater

What are the odds of this, especially in comparison with the odds of developing it as a result of getting covid?

I'm not familiar with any links between catching COVID and developing thrombosis. There are enough reports of people developing thrombosis after being inoculated for the CDC to take action, even after efforts to repress/discount the reports. Based on statistical evidence straight from the CDC, I'm at a much greater risk of dying from the vaccine (directly or indirectly) than I am of dying from COVID, especially considering that the first thing I would do if I started feeling ill would be to call my friend whose boss is a physician who prescribes Ivermectin.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:07 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Given the fact that you know that there exist vulnerable people who can't (for one reason or another) be vaccinated, or who (say) derive little benefit from vaccines because they are immuno-compromised or -suppressed, then why do you call this scenario hyper-theoretical? I'm simply not following your logic at all. The only question would be, well, how many of these people exist? I say "especially" because it's not theoretical at all if you know and interact, perhaps even live, with people who fall into one of these categories.

My point is simply that there are risks no matter what, and you cannot actually quantify them in any action-guiding way. There are vulnerable people who can't be vaccinated, yes. And the vaccine itself poses risks. And it is an epistemic impossibility to weigh those risks, not merely because we have no longitudinal studies on the vaccine, but certainly for that reason as well. So you do what seems best to you, given our state as limited, fallible critters. I am not getting vaccinated.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:35 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Mrs. Timmy wrote:
The odds of me developing thrombosis as a result of the vaccine are far greater

What are the odds of this, especially in comparison with the odds of developing it as a result of getting covid?

I'm not familiar with any links between catching COVID and developing thrombosis.

There are, in fact there is research that the odds of getting thrombosis from covid are greater than those of getting it from the vaccine.

Quote:
There are enough reports of people developing thrombosis after being inoculated for the CDC to take action, even after efforts to repress/discount the reports. Based on statistical evidence straight from the CDC, I'm at a much greater risk of dying from the vaccine (directly or indirectly) than I am of dying from COVID, especially considering that the first thing I would do if I started feeling ill would be to call my friend whose boss is a physician who prescribes Ivermectin.

CDC reports a chance of 0.0017% given deaths reported in VAERS (not all of which can be traced back to the vaccine) and the number of doses given. The chance of dying from covid itself is likely between 0.5% and 1%; even the lower number would give almost 300x the chance of dying from the vaccine.

Personally I don't believe that ivermectin would do anything against covid, at least not at the standard dose. It's primarily used as an anti-parasitic (it's the active agent in dogs' heartworm medication, for example).

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:57 pm 
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Attached is a peer-to-peer discussion on thrombosis resulting from the COVID vaccine written for cardiologists. https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiolog ... 9-vaccines

Although the article tries to downplay the likelihood of developing thrombosis as a result of the COVID vaccine, to me it boils down to this. I'm a female under the age of 65, in reasonably good health - just the kind of person who most often develops thrombosis after receiving the COVID vaccine. Per all of the scientific documentation readily available, the vaccine itself does not prevent infection; rather, it merely ameliorates the symptoms. A healthy woman my age has something like a 99.6% chance of surviving COVID if infected; considering that I can get my hands on Ivermectin within 1-2 hours after development of symptoms, I think I can be fairly confident of even greater odds of survival. Knowing the severity of effects that thrombosis can have on a body - including the possibility of debilitating loss of physical and/or cognitive function and even death - with little to no warning of onset, can anyone reasonably blame me for choosing to take my chances on COVID? I think not.

As for Ivermectin, I can understand why you'd be skeptical, Bags. I might be, too, if I didn't personally know of at least four people who credit Ivermectin with saving their lives from the ravages of COVID. Two of them were in very bad shape before receiving Ivermectin - I know this because I spoke to them both while they were so very ill. All four of whom I speak were right as rain within 3 days of initiating the Ivermectin regimen. I'm sure if I shook the bushes around here, I could come up with more first-hand accounts - we're a pretty close-knit group.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:12 pm 
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Of course to have any risk at all of any reaction to covid you have to become infected first. According to the covid risk assessment tool 19 and me hosted by Mathematica.org my risk of infection from community spread is 0.057%. The vaccine 100% exposes you to the risks of adverse reactions.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:46 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:41 am 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Light of the East wrote:
Wonder how your children would feel if you drop dead after getting the poisonous, DNA altering injection that has killed thousands??

It doesn't alter DNA (it doesn't interact with cells' nuclei) and it hasn't killed thousands.

Quote:
According to the CDC’s VAERS database, over 4,100 deaths have been reported after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine.

Yes, people have died after getting the vaccine, it does not necessarily mean that the vaccine has killed them. VAERS records possible adverse reactions, not certain adverse reactions.

Get the vaccine or don't, that's your choice.


I am amazed at how stubborn some people are against facts. You act as if I am quoting from my own personal opinion rather than that of true doctors and researchers who aren't A.) on the government dole and interested in keeping their jobs B.) prejudiced against certain forms of medicine C.) shills and lackeys making money.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... 151104&p5=

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... 1117600979

You can do what you want. That's not the problem. The problem is the EGREGIOUS LIES that are being told in an effort to FORCE ME to take a "vaccine" I do not want.

And yes, it DOES alter the DNA. I just can't find the research link right now. You are WRONG. It is in no way a vaccine.


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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:32 pm 
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Light of the East wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Light of the East wrote:
Wonder how your children would feel if you drop dead after getting the poisonous, DNA altering injection that has killed thousands??

It doesn't alter DNA (it doesn't interact with cells' nuclei) and it hasn't killed thousands.

Quote:
According to the CDC’s VAERS database, over 4,100 deaths have been reported after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine.

Yes, people have died after getting the vaccine, it does not necessarily mean that the vaccine has killed them. VAERS records possible adverse reactions, not certain adverse reactions.

Get the vaccine or don't, that's your choice.


I am amazed at how stubborn some people are against facts. You act as if I am quoting from my own personal opinion rather than that of true doctors and researchers who aren't A.) on the government dole and interested in keeping their jobs B.) prejudiced against certain forms of medicine C.) shills and lackeys making money.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... 151104&p5=

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... 1117600979

You can do what you want. That's not the problem. The problem is the EGREGIOUS LIES that are being told in an effort to FORCE ME to take a "vaccine" I do not want.

And yes, it DOES alter the DNA. I just can't find the research link right now. You are WRONG. It is in no way a vaccine.


To be perfectly fair to LOTE, in extremely rare circumstances, RNA can cause reverse transcription and become DNA that gets encoded within DNA. Given there are trillions of cells in our bodies and billions of people on the planet, will there be a few people that this happens?

Yes. Its going to happen.

Extremely rare, but it will.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:06 pm 
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Peetem wrote:
Light of the East wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Light of the East wrote:
Wonder how your children would feel if you drop dead after getting the poisonous, DNA altering injection that has killed thousands??

It doesn't alter DNA (it doesn't interact with cells' nuclei) and it hasn't killed thousands.

Quote:
According to the CDC’s VAERS database, over 4,100 deaths have been reported after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine.

Yes, people have died after getting the vaccine, it does not necessarily mean that the vaccine has killed them. VAERS records possible adverse reactions, not certain adverse reactions.

Get the vaccine or don't, that's your choice.


I am amazed at how stubborn some people are against facts. You act as if I am quoting from my own personal opinion rather than that of true doctors and researchers who aren't A.) on the government dole and interested in keeping their jobs B.) prejudiced against certain forms of medicine C.) shills and lackeys making money.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... 151104&p5=

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... 1117600979

You can do what you want. That's not the problem. The problem is the EGREGIOUS LIES that are being told in an effort to FORCE ME to take a "vaccine" I do not want.

And yes, it DOES alter the DNA. I just can't find the research link right now. You are WRONG. It is in no way a vaccine.


To be perfectly fair to LOTE, in extremely rare circumstances, RNA can cause reverse transcription and become DNA that gets encoded within DNA. Given there are trillions of cells in our bodies and billions of people on the planet, will there be a few people that this happens?

Yes. Its going to happen.

Extremely rare, but it will.


My understanding, imperfect as it may be, from reading online doctors and viriologists and the like, is that the spike protein attaches itself to the DNA, causing it to react in a different manner than normal when a new invader enters the body. What these scientists and doctors are expecting this fall is a rash of deaths as the spike protein pushes the immune system into overdrive, literally causing the immune system to attack the body in a manner that kills it.

It will be very sad if this happens. Millions of people dying. The only way we will know this is if we see a spike in the death rate, a serious uptick. And the lying )(*#*#&^# who have done this to us will turn around and say it is from "a new strain of Covid" and then go on to issue more draconian measures, possiblty to include mandatory vaccinations.

I don't believe in eternal hell, but these people could make me in favor of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:50 pm 
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Light of the East wrote:
My understanding, imperfect as it may be, from reading online doctors and viriologists and the like, is that the spike protein attaches itself to the DNA, causing it to react in a different manner than normal when a new invader enters the body. What these scientists and doctors are expecting this fall is a rash of deaths as the spike protein pushes the immune system into overdrive, literally causing the immune system to attack the body in a manner that kills it.

It will be very sad if this happens. Millions of people dying. The only way we will know this is if we see a spike in the death rate, a serious uptick. And the lying )(*#*#&^# who have done this to us will turn around and say it is from "a new strain of Covid" and then go on to issue more draconian measures, possiblty to include mandatory vaccinations.

I don't believe in eternal hell, but these people could make me in favor of it.


So the spike protein could never attach itself to the DNA. However, if the mRNA does become DNA (through reverse transcription), the "code" that causes cells to produce the spike protein could then become permanently embedded in a persons DNA. And if that happens, in theory, the cells would never stop producing the spike protein and nobody knows what would happen next.

I suspect the immune system would be in a constant "attack mode" and the patent would develop some sort of cancer-like illness of the blood....maybe a run-away immune response as you suggested.

Who knows?

But what your read makes sense.

Agonizing death I would imagine....and nobody, anywhere, would ever read about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:10 pm 
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Light of the East wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Light of the East wrote:
Wonder how your children would feel if you drop dead after getting the poisonous, DNA altering injection that has killed thousands??

It doesn't alter DNA (it doesn't interact with cells' nuclei) and it hasn't killed thousands.

Quote:
According to the CDC’s VAERS database, over 4,100 deaths have been reported after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine.

Yes, people have died after getting the vaccine, it does not necessarily mean that the vaccine has killed them. VAERS records possible adverse reactions, not certain adverse reactions.

Get the vaccine or don't, that's your choice.


I am amazed at how stubborn some people are against facts. You act as if I am quoting from my own personal opinion rather than that of true doctors and researchers who aren't A.) on the government dole and interested in keeping their jobs B.) prejudiced against certain forms of medicine C.) shills and lackeys making money.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... 151104&p5=

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/arti ... 1117600979

You can do what you want. That's not the problem. The problem is the EGREGIOUS LIES that are being told in an effort to FORCE ME to take a "vaccine" I do not want.

And yes, it DOES alter the DNA. I just can't find the research link right now. You are WRONG. It is in no way a vaccine.


I agree with you that it is not a vaccine. I am aware that it is experimental. I have heard it called "gene therapy", and the spike proteins can cause much damage down the road. I try to learn and understand more about this and am listening to doctors speaking out now.

I just listened to Dr. Simone Gold at this site: https://www.stopworldcontrol.com/

Scroll down about 1/3 of the way to reach her excellent talk. She admits to not knowing everything there is to know about this subject, but she does know a lot! I don't have the smarts to be able to articulate to others perfectly what she has shared, and to those who are interested I recommend that they listen to what she has to say.

It is long, but even if you just listen to part of it you will learn a lot and respect her insights.

I am glad to hear many doctors speaking out now. I listen to the doctors on Mercola also.

And, of course, we have to pray much and make sacrifices for what is happening in the world.


Last edited by Dorothy B. on Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:15 pm 
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When I got to the part about trial lawyers, I tuned out. Lawyers will believe whatever is in their interests t believe.


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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:39 pm 
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Vern Humphrey wrote:
When I got to the part about trial lawyers, I tuned out. Lawyers will believe whatever is in their interests t believe.


So, maybe you could give Dr. Simone Gold a chance to express what she has to say. You could always click yourself away if you don't agree with her.


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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:01 pm 
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Dorothy B. wrote:
Vern Humphrey wrote:
When I got to the part about trial lawyers, I tuned out. Lawyers will believe whatever is in their interests t believe.


So, maybe you could give Dr. Simone Gold a chance to express what she has to say. You could always click yourself away if you don't agree with her.


She says a number of things that have made me hesitate. And I turn 76 in less than 2 months.

And then, OTOH, there's David Icke.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccines and COVID as a weapon with family
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:51 am 
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I would add that the J&J vaccine uses vector-virus technology - from my research its much less risky than the mRNA vaccines. Its still new and not something I'm 100% sure about. But, if I had to get it I would (although its development and testing came from problematic means - aborted fetus stem cells).

I'm waiting on Covaxin or Novaxx's vaccine to be approved. The former uses a killed-virus technology that old, tested, safe and reliability. The efficacy is lower at around 70%, but it still protects against a severe illness even if you get Covid.

Novaxx's vaccine uses a protein-based delivery (antigens). Its also a safe and tested technology - although newer than killed or attenuated virus, there are several of this type that have been on the market for years (tetanus is one I believe). It was part of operation warp speed (so FDA approval should be soon).

But the mRNA stuff? No way for me....unless I was over 70 and didn't think I'd live to be 100, and it was all that was available.

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