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 Post subject: Re: From Feser's endnotes
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:15 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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So if I am understanding you correctly, the problem is a misunderstanding on freedom, as a license to choose whatever one likes. Right?

I see the same thing in the song Let It Go: I have no rules, no right no wrong, now I am free.

This is a topic I don't understand very much. Can you tell me what freedom actually is, or direct me to good sources, please?

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 Post subject: Re: From Feser's endnotes
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:59 pm 
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Quote:
The tree in question is
identified as the tree of “the knowledge of good and evil” (Gen 2:17),
which is to say, a form of knowing that is the unique prerogative of God.
Since God is himself the unconditioned good, he alone is the criterion of
what is morally right and wrong. According to the semiotics of this story,
therefore, the eating of the fruit of the forbidden tree is the act of arrogating
to oneself what belongs in a privileged way to God. It is to make the human
will itself the criterion of good and evil, and from this subtle move, on the
Biblical reading, misery has followed as surely as night follows the day.
Notice how wickedly and cunningly the serpent tempted Eve: “God
knows well that the moment you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you
will be like gods who know what is good and what is evil.” The basic sin,
the original sin, is precisely this self-deification, this apotheosizing of the
will. Lest you think all of this is just abstract theological musing, remember
the 1992 Supreme Court decision in the matter of Casey v. Planned
Parenthood. Writing for the majority in that case, Justice Kennedy opined
that “at the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of
existence, of meaning, of the universe, of the mystery of human life.”
Frankly, I can’t imagine a more perfect description of what it means to
grasp at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If Justice Kennedy is
right, individual freedom completely trumps objective value and becomes
the indisputable criterion of right and wrong. And if the book of Genesis is
right, such a move is the elemental dysfunction, the primordial mistake, the
original calamity.
Of course, the Supreme Court simply gave formal expression to what is
generally, though unthematically, accepted throughout much of
contemporary Western culture.

Bishop Barron, Vibrant Paradoxes

He makes the same point as you. Though I'm still struggling to understand freedom.

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: From Feser's endnotes
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:23 pm 
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The problem is that, much like the word "love", it has several overlapping definitions. It's too late at night here for me to go digging for the relevant book, but I will try to get to it at some point.

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 Post subject: Re: From Feser's endnotes
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:26 am 
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Did the Enlightenment/ early modern thinkers read and get influenced by Occam? Or is he blamed simply because he happened to think of similar things previously?

And, any updates on freedom?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: From Feser's endnotes
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:07 am 
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I've found John Wild's Introduction to Realistic Philosophy very accessible. It's divided into two self-contained parts. The second part on the philosophy of nature was helpful to me.


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 Post subject: Re: From Feser's endnotes
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:19 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
Did the Enlightenment/ early modern thinkers read and get influenced by Occam? Or is he blamed simply because he happened to think of similar things previously?

And, any updates on freedom?

There is a direct line of thought from Occam to the enlightenment.

I'm pretty sure I already gave you the link to a blog site with an extended discussion of freedom.

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 Post subject: Re: From Feser's endnotes
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:21 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
Did the Enlightenment/ early modern thinkers read and get influenced by Occam? Or is he blamed simply because he happened to think of similar things previously?

And, any updates on freedom?

There is a direct line of thought from Occam to the enlightenment.

I'm pretty sure I already gave you the link to a blog site with an extended discussion of freedom.

What do you mean by "direct line of thought", Father?

Thank you for the link. I'd asked this before you answered elsewhere :D

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: From Feser's endnotes
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:20 pm 
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I mean that people who read Occam wrote things influenced by his thought. Other people read their works, were influenced by them, and wrote things reflecting that influence, and so on down to the Enlightenment.

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 Post subject: Re: From Feser's endnotes
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:49 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I mean that people who read Occam wrote things influenced by his thought. Other people read their works, were influenced by them, and wrote things reflecting that influence, and so on down to the Enlightenment.

Thank you. Can you name a few people in this chain, please?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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