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 Post subject: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:24 am 
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MEXICO CITY (AP) — Facebook has placed a warning screen over a rambling chat by retired Mexican Cardinal Juan Sandoval Iñiguez in which he claims coronavirus vaccines contain a satanic microchip.

The Facebook screen warns viewers, “This post repeats information about COVID-19 that independent fact-checkers say is false.”

https://apnews.com/article/guadalajara-coronavirus-pandemic-latin-america-mexico-6798d15dc713a4a80099c7e74d0bc283

You can watch the video of the Cardinal here:

http://www.arquimediosgdl.org.mx/iglesia-en-guadalajara/censura-facebook-a-cardenal-juan-sandoval/?fbclid=IwAR1pLhPg86e4i9Rjq1M8WtO1deq-m3QEyFtbjl5-M8nfgZRSSxcCK19Icds

First off, I watched the video, and nowhere did it say the word "satanic". Nowhere does he say that COVID isn't real or that it's not tragic. His comments are about where this can lead to and who is in control of it all.

Whilst this can lead to some not wanting to take the vaccine or comply in some ways, the censorship is insane.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:52 am 
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It's all about control.

Freedom of speech means freedom to say things that other people disagree with -- if everyone agrees with you, you don't need freedom of speech.


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:37 pm 
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As we do not have a Central Committee yet, the Agitprop Section's function is being performed by a voluntary, brave group of woke organizations and institutions. Who can make up facts and suppress the reactionaries to support a broader truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:41 pm 
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Highlander wrote:
As we do not have a Central Committee yet, the Agitprop Section's function is being performed by a voluntary, brave group of woke organizations and institutions. Who can make up facts and suppress the reactionaries to support a broader truth.



Long time coming. My post postscript has been there since I first joined the board.

Prescient.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:09 pm 
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I had a facebook page for awhile, but I quit using it I guess about 4 years ago. I did try to cancel it once at some point in the interim, but I couldn't get logged in for some reason. Just this past week, I did manage to log in and cancel the account. The whole point was to decrease their number of accounts by the one I had any control over. But in reading some stuff on a local 3nd amendment board, it actually appears they don't actually delete the account--just block my access to it. In other words, there is no way to decrease their number of accounts. I don't know if this is true, but I kinda suspect it is. :soap: :soap: :soap: :soap: :soap:

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:42 pm 
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Facebook owns their playground, they get to make the rules. I agree to those rules when I accept their terms of service. I simply cannot jump on the outrage wagon.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:45 pm 
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kage_ar wrote:
Facebook owns their playground, they get to make the rules. I agree to those rules when I accept their terms of service. I simply cannot jump on the outrage wagon.

And you can say the same thing about Big Oil, Big Pharmacy, Big Banking, and so on and so on.


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:03 pm 
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Criminally Insane Cucumber
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kage_ar wrote:
Facebook owns their playground, they get to make the rules. I agree to those rules when I accept their terms of service. I simply cannot jump on the outrage wagon.

That's generally what I'd say about private businesses, but there is a basically overwhelming argument at this point that big tech isn't a private industry in the traditional sense. When public discourse really has moved to things like Twitter and Facebook, and when there is sufficient power in the hands of private businesses like whoever shut down Parler to keep any "competition" dead in the water, this becomes censorship in the full sense, even if the government isn't actually behind it.

Note, also, the total power over money that the big banks have. You want to buy stuff? You gotta use paypal or a credit card. Paypal doesn't allow sales of anything related to guns or ammo, to pick an example. OK, so you have to use a credit card. That means, first of all, you have to be able to get a credit card, and not everyone can. It also means you have to be willing to get a credit card and not everyone is. But it also means that the credit card companies can simply decide to stop allowing you to use them for guns or ammo. And then what do we do? What's the alternative?

Local shops still exist, but there is increasing pressure on them, and of course any government shut downs target the local brick and mortar shops unfairly, to the benefit of the big online sellers. So there's a concerted effort underway to destroy local infrastructure, as well.

In the old days, if you didn't like what your local newspaper had to say about things, you could cancel your subscription, and you could even start up a competitor and see if you could get it going. That ain't our world anymore. The quasi libertarian "their rules" line isn't applicable anymore.

And by the way, those leftists don't accept that line for other people, anyway. For example, if a business owner wants to allow smoking in his shop, the leftists have told him he can't. His playground yes, but not his rules. If a business owner wants to politely decline to bake a cake celebrating immorality, the leftists are have told him he can't. His playground yes, but not his rules.

Again, that's not our world anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:37 pm 
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gherkin wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Facebook owns their playground, they get to make the rules. I agree to those rules when I accept their terms of service. I simply cannot jump on the outrage wagon.

That's generally what I'd say about private businesses, but there is a basically overwhelming argument at this point that big tech isn't a private industry in the traditional sense. When public discourse really has moved to things like Twitter and Facebook, and when there is sufficient power in the hands of private businesses like whoever shut down Parler to keep any "competition" dead in the water, this becomes censorship in the full sense, even if the government isn't actually behind it.

Note, also, the total power over money that the big banks have. You want to buy stuff? You gotta use paypal or a credit card. Paypal doesn't allow sales of anything related to guns or ammo, to pick an example. OK, so you have to use a credit card. That means, first of all, you have to be able to get a credit card, and not everyone can. It also means you have to be willing to get a credit card and not everyone is. But it also means that the credit card companies can simply decide to stop allowing you to use them for guns or ammo. And then what do we do? What's the alternative?

Local shops still exist, but there is increasing pressure on them, and of course any government shut downs target the local brick and mortar shops unfairly, to the benefit of the big online sellers. So there's a concerted effort underway to destroy local infrastructure, as well.

In the old days, if you didn't like what your local newspaper had to say about things, you could cancel your subscription, and you could even start up a competitor and see if you could get it going. That ain't our world anymore. The quasi libertarian "their rules" line isn't applicable anymore.

And by the way, those leftists don't accept that line for other people, anyway. For example, if a business owner wants to allow smoking in his shop, the leftists have told him he can't. His playground yes, but not his rules. If a business owner wants to politely decline to bake a cake celebrating immorality, the leftists are have told him he can't. His playground yes, but not his rules.

Again, that's not our world anymore.


And the sea rises higher.

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Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:31 pm 
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gherkin wrote:
... no way to decrease their number of accounts. ...

Because he who dies with the most accounts, wins?

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:22 pm 
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Highlander wrote:
gherkin wrote:
... no way to decrease their number of accounts. ...

Because he who dies with the most accounts, wins?

Not sure if you're just joking around or if you're asking for clarification. I assume the former, but I'll go with the latter anyway. I assume their ad revenue is connected intelligibly to the number of eyeballs they can deliver to the advertiser. So by having an account, I earn them money.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:10 pm 
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Advertisers are concerned with actual views, not total accounts.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:16 am 
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So he who dies with the most views, wins?

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Benedicamus Domino!
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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:52 am 
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gherkin wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
... private businesses, but there is a basically overwhelming argument at this point that big tech isn't a private industry in the traditional sense. ...
...
...if a business owner wants to allow smoking in his shop, the leftists have told him he can't. His playground yes, but not his rules. If a business owner wants to politely decline to bake a cake celebrating immorality, the leftists are have told him he can't. His playground yes, but not his rules.

Again, that's not our world anymore.


Government regulation of private business, intrinsicly, makes private business an arm of the government. We do no operate, and never have, within a pure capitalistic model. The FDA, OHSA, EPA, IRS, FTC, USPS, and others, individually and in the aggregate, define how a private business obtains good and services, how it produces goods and services, and how it sells goods and services. To implement government policy within a private business, the aggregate government can use a silk glove, but, increasingly, it uses a cudgel.

In addition to the examples provided above, let us consider hiring. One cannot simply hire the best qualified candidate. One must implement governments' racial, gender (ain't that a wormhole), cultural, economic, and educational policies -- or be subject to the governments' enforcement and punitive arms.. Failure to hire in accordance with governments' policies can result in loss of contracts, administrative (I did not say "legal") punishment, or elimination from various government assistance programs. I recall many government contracts which consisted of 80% boilerplate that required the winning private business to implement and comply with a huge range of government policies. With the result, in one such case, of obeying the mandate to hire local, ethnic, college graduates resulting in the employment of a mathematically illiterate engineering graduate (some universities have different standards than others)...to run the copy machine.

Some may also recall the EPA deciding that a pond on a farm was a wetland and that the farm's failure to implement the proper EPA regulations for protecting a wetland, even at the cost of the farm going bankrupt, resulted in administrative fines and criminal prosecution. This case reveals the government's seizure of the the management of a private business, even at the cost of the destruction of the private business.

Which is why, I offer, that so many middle and large sized businesses are going publicly and loudly woke -- to obtain and maintain a competitive niche in anticipation of yet more government management of their business. I anticipate seeing a line in their hiring notices:

No Irish Need Apply

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Where’er the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s music and laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!
~Hilaire Belloc

Semper Fi!


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:43 am 
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Highlander wrote:
gherkin wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
... private businesses, but there is a basically overwhelming argument at this point that big tech isn't a private industry in the traditional sense. ...
...
...if a business owner wants to allow smoking in his shop, the leftists have told him he can't. His playground yes, but not his rules. If a business owner wants to politely decline to bake a cake celebrating immorality, the leftists are have told him he can't. His playground yes, but not his rules.

Again, that's not our world anymore.


Government regulation of private business, intrinsicly, makes private business an arm of the government. We do no operate, and never have, within a pure capitalistic model. The FDA, OHSA, EPA, IRS, FTC, USPS, and others, individually and in the aggregate, define how a private business obtains good and services, how it produces goods and services, and how it sells goods and services. To implement government policy within a private business, the aggregate government can use a silk glove, but, increasingly, it uses a cudgel.

In addition to the examples provided above, let us consider hiring. One cannot simply hire the best qualified candidate. One must implement governments' racial, gender (ain't that a wormhole), cultural, economic, and educational policies -- or be subject to the governments' enforcement and punitive arms.. Failure to hire in accordance with governments' policies can result in loss of contracts, administrative (I did not say "legal") punishment, or elimination from various government assistance programs. I recall many government contracts which consisted of 80% boilerplate that required the winning private business to implement and comply with a huge range of government policies. With the result, in one such case, of obeying the mandate to hire local, ethnic, college graduates resulting in the employment of a mathematically illiterate engineering graduate (some universities have different standards than others)...to run the copy machine.

Some may also recall the EPA deciding that a pond on a farm was a wetland and that the farm's failure to implement the proper EPA regulations for protecting a wetland, even at the cost of the farm going bankrupt, resulted in administrative fines and criminal prosecution. This case reveals the government's seizure of the the management of a private business, even at the cost of the destruction of the private business.

Which is why, I offer, that so many middle and large sized businesses are going publicly and loudly woke -- to obtain and maintain a competitive niche in anticipation of yet more government management of their business. I anticipate seeing a line in their hiring notices:

No Irish Need Apply



And the sky grows darker yet.

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Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:51 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Advertisers are concerned with actual views, not total accounts.

Ha. Well, then, phooey on them. :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:14 am 
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Highlander wrote:
gherkin wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
... private businesses, but there is a basically overwhelming argument at this point that big tech isn't a private industry in the traditional sense. ...
...
...if a business owner wants to allow smoking in his shop, the leftists have told him he can't. His playground yes, but not his rules. If a business owner wants to politely decline to bake a cake celebrating immorality, the leftists are have told him he can't. His playground yes, but not his rules.

Again, that's not our world anymore.


Government regulation of private business, intrinsicly, makes private business an arm of the government. We do no operate, and never have, within a pure capitalistic model. The FDA, OHSA, EPA, IRS, FTC, USPS, and others, individually and in the aggregate, define how a private business obtains good and services, how it produces goods and services, and how it sells goods and services. To implement government policy within a private business, the aggregate government can use a silk glove, but, increasingly, it uses a cudgel.

In addition to the examples provided above, let us consider hiring. One cannot simply hire the best qualified candidate. One must implement governments' racial, gender (ain't that a wormhole), cultural, economic, and educational policies -- or be subject to the governments' enforcement and punitive arms.. Failure to hire in accordance with governments' policies can result in loss of contracts, administrative (I did not say "legal") punishment, or elimination from various government assistance programs. I recall many government contracts which consisted of 80% boilerplate that required the winning private business to implement and comply with a huge range of government policies. With the result, in one such case, of obeying the mandate to hire local, ethnic, college graduates resulting in the employment of a mathematically illiterate engineering graduate (some universities have different standards than others)...to run the copy machine.

Some may also recall the EPA deciding that a pond on a farm was a wetland and that the farm's failure to implement the proper EPA regulations for protecting a wetland, even at the cost of the farm going bankrupt, resulted in administrative fines and criminal prosecution. This case reveals the government's seizure of the the management of a private business, even at the cost of the destruction of the private business.

Which is why, I offer, that so many middle and large sized businesses are going publicly and loudly woke -- to obtain and maintain a competitive niche in anticipation of yet more government management of their business. I anticipate seeing a line in their hiring notices:

No Irish Need Apply

The system you describe is called Fascism -- the Corporate State/


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:35 am 
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kage_ar wrote:
Facebook owns their playground, they get to make the rules. I agree to those rules when I accept their terms of service. I simply cannot jump on the outrage wagon.


Well, you can also choose not to buy Apple products because of the Uyghurs being exploited in Chinese camps.

How much can we stomach?

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:47 am 
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gherkin wrote:
What's the alternative?


Cash

gherkin wrote:
Local shops still exist, but there is increasing pressure on them, and of course any government shut downs target the local brick and mortar shops unfairly, to the benefit of the big online sellers. So there's a concerted effort underway to destroy local infrastructure, as well.


I hear this often, daily, yet, it is not my experience. If we are talking about COVID-related restrictions, in my state the rules are applied to every business. This is a tourist town where we do not even have a Target, so, locally owned businesses and restaurants are the backbone of our main street. Small businesses here were able to receive forgivable loans last year to keep their businesses in business. From what I hear, round two of these loans is coming.

Here, there are more jobs open than people to take them, and the communities are very much supporting local businesses. DS and I eat curbside carry out from local restaurants at least once per week, an extravagance but we feel it is important to do our part.

gherkin wrote:
In the old days, if you didn't like what your local newspaper had to say about things, you could cancel your subscription, and you could even start up a competitor and see if you could get it going. That ain't our world anymore. The quasi libertarian "their rules" line isn't applicable anymore.


One can set up a competitor today, as long as you have the financial resources. You may not be able to agree to the TOS of XYZ web provider, then, print a magazine or start a radio program, buy time on your local TV station, start a ROKU channel, get creative.

gherkin wrote:
And by the way, those leftists don't accept that line for other people, anyway. For example, if a business owner wants to allow smoking in his shop, the leftists have told him he can't. His playground yes, but not his rules.


I've never understood smoking laws to be based on party affiliation.


gherkin wrote:
If a business owner wants to politely decline to bake a cake celebrating immorality, the leftists are have told him he can't. His playground yes, but not his rules.


The cake debate, you and I will never see eye to eye on this one :)

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook censors Mexican Cardinal
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:48 am 
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Dominic wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Facebook owns their playground, they get to make the rules. I agree to those rules when I accept their terms of service. I simply cannot jump on the outrage wagon.


Well, you can also choose not to buy Apple products because of the Uyghurs being exploited in Chinese camps.

How much can we stomach?


I do not own one single Apple product.

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