Is hell the natural fate of man?

Obi-Wan Kenobi · **Posted:** Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:09 am

That depends on what you mean by "natural." In the state of original innocence, no (though Heaven was also not the default destination, so it's not certain what God had in mind, IMHO). Since original sin, with a wounded nature, yes.

Jack3 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:30 am

Thank you

Doom · **Posted:** Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:11 am

I interpreted the question a little differently, as in " did create human beings for the purpose of sending them to hell?" and the answer to that is definitely "no"

Speed Racer · **Posted:** Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:14 am

I agree with Doom.

Obi-Wan Kenobi · **Posted:** Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:17 am

The being-banned thread is thataway----->

Obi-Wan Kenobi · **Posted:** Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:18 am

That's why my answer is what it is. The state of innocence part refutes that theory.

Jack3 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:02 am

What I was getting at is this: Is heaven the "normal" or"default" destinationb after the fall, and the damned are punished by excluding them from it, or, is hell the default and the blessed are rewarded bt being excluded from it?

Doom · **Posted:** Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:08 pm

Everyone deserves to go to hell, it is only by the grace of God that some avoid that fate

Denise Dee · **Posted:** Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:23 pm

Doom wrote:

Everyone deserves to go to hell, it is only by the grace of God that some avoid that fate

How does a person who never asked to be created, who never consented to being created with all the weaknesses he or she was created with, who never chose to be one of the unlucky ones, "deserve to go to hell", the worst and longest punishment possible? For what? For being born!

Obi-Wan Kenobi · **Posted:** Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:02 pm

Jack3 wrote:

What I was getting at is this: Is heaven the "normal" or"default" destinationb after the fall, and the damned are punished by excluding them from it, or, is hell the default and the blessed are rewarded bt being excluded from it?

I'm not sure that "excluded" is the word you want here. "Excepted" might be better.

Obi-Wan Kenobi · **Posted:** Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:54 pm

https://www.scribd.com/document/67231651/Original-Sin

Jack3 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:12 am

Thank you.

Peregrinator · **Posted:** Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:44 am

Denise Dee wrote:

Doom wrote:

Everyone deserves to go to hell, it is only by the grace of God that some avoid that fate

How does a person who never asked to be created, who never consented to being created with all the weaknesses he or she was created with, who never chose to be one of the unlucky ones, "deserve to go to hell", the worst and longest punishment possible? For what? For being born!

You speak of "consent" as if God owes us something

Denise Dee · **Posted:** Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:09 pm

Peregrinator wrote:

Denise Dee wrote:

Doom wrote:

Everyone deserves to go to hell, it is only by the grace of God that some avoid that fate

How does a person who never asked to be created, who never consented to being created with all the weaknesses he or she was created with, who never chose to be one of the unlucky ones, "deserve to go to hell", the worst and longest punishment possible? For what? For being born!

You speak of "consent" as if God owes us something

Consent has got nothing to do with anyone owing anyone anything.

Peregrinator · **Posted:** Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:29 pm

Denise Dee wrote:

Peregrinator wrote:

Denise Dee wrote:

Doom wrote:

Everyone deserves to go to hell, it is only by the grace of God that some avoid that fate

How does a person who never asked to be created, who never consented to being created with all the weaknesses he or she was created with, who never chose to be one of the unlucky ones, "deserve to go to hell", the worst and longest punishment possible? For what? For being born!

You speak of "consent" as if God owes us something

Consent has got nothing to do with anyone owing anyone anything.

Then why would it be bad for someone to be created with weaknesses, etc.? Does God owe us better?

Denise Dee · **Posted:** Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:50 am

Peregrinator wrote:

Denise Dee wrote:

Peregrinator wrote:

Denise Dee wrote:

Doom wrote:

Everyone deserves to go to hell, it is only by the grace of God that some avoid that fate

How does a person who never asked to be created, who never consented to being created with all the weaknesses he or she was created with, who never chose to be one of the unlucky ones, "deserve to go to hell", the worst and longest punishment possible? For what? For being born!

You speak of "consent" as if God owes us something

Consent has got nothing to do with anyone owing anyone anything.

Then why would it be bad for someone to be created with weaknesses, etc.? Does God owe us better?

I never said it's bad for someone to be created with weaknesses.

I said it's bad for a creator to create someone with the weaknesses that cause a person to end up in hell suffering for eternity because they were created like that, when they never consented to being created with those weaknesses - so how by any stretch of the imagination could anyone claim that the person who never consented to being created with those weaknesses "deserves to go to hell"?