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 Post subject: gherkin!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:37 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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Cardinal Sarah contra capitalism

THE FACE OF POSTMODERN DEMOCRACIES AND CAPITALISM

The truth of capitalism must be judged by the yardstick of the free dom that each person can keep and increase. It is clear that today the managers, like the hired workers, are caught in the gears of national and international decisions that limit their freedom. I often have the feeling that the material well-being of the West was acquired at the price of a sort of moral decline of the populations. Therefore, it is necessary to state clearly the distinction between an economy founded on freedom of enterprise and a capitalist system founded on the profit motive Economic freedom implies our responsibility as men before God and our fellow citizens. It is not an absolute without rules or limits. It is at the service of everyone's good. Its objective is the friendship of all in the civilization. It must therefore be regulated by a certain sobriety and temperance, or else it becomes blind and violent. A freedom that aims only at profit ends up destroying itself.

What connection is there between the consumer society, mass culture, and the standardization of ways of life?

Capitalism tends to reduce humanity to one central figure: the consumer. All economic forces attempt to create a buyer who can be the same anywhere on the globe. The Australian consumer must resemble the Spanish or the Romanian consumer exactly. Cultural and national identities must not be a hindrance to the building of this interchangeable man.

The standardization of consumer products is the perfect reflection of the aridity of this soulless civilization. The consumer society encourages ever-increasing production, the ever-greater accumulation and consumption of material goods. It presents to man an unimaginable abundance of material goods to consume and attempts to stimulate human greed more and more. The abundance of mate rial goods is almost frightening. A human being seems obliged to consume what happens to be within his reach.

Materialism seeks to provoke an unlimited need for enjoyment. It totally misunderstands the needs of the interior life. In order to flourish, each person must be recognized in his uniqueness. The essence of capitalism is contrary to this principle. Capitalism imprisons man within himself isolates him, and makes him dependent.

Mass consumption leads to a dangerous, sterile form of gregariousness. The standardization of ways of life is the cancer of the postmodern world. Men become unwitting members of a great planetary herd that does not think, does protest, and allows itself to be guided toward a future that does not belong to it. Individual isolation and the degradation of persons, who are doomed to be no more than elements lost in the mass of consumers, are the two most horrible children of capitalism. God's creature is deadened. He places his heart as a burnt offering on the altar of artificial happiness. He no longer knows the taste of true joys. He is an animal that cats, drinks, revels, and enjoys The critical sense has become a ghost from the past. Globalized humanity, without borders, is a hell.

Do you think that economic liberalism and societal libertarianism march to the same drummer?

Liberal capitalism needs to make men lose their beliefs and their morality. It mobilizes all its forces to arrive at an anarchic libertarianism. But a mind-set that is indifferent to evil, while tolerating everything, protects nothing.

May 1968 marked the turning point of this fatal alliance between economic liberalism and societal libertarianism. The official thinkers of this trend, for example Jean-Paul Sartre or Michel Foucault, advocated the liberation of the instincts. They wanted to break all the taboos, the social frameworks, and the institutions, and to liberate spontaneity. Those who identified with this...

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: gherkin!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:43 am 
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Banned for calling out gherkin.

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 Post subject: Re: gherkin!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:04 am 
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I was calling him out so that he can be banned!!!!!

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: gherkin!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:10 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
Cardinal Sarah contra capitalism

THE FACE OF POSTMODERN DEMOCRACIES AND CAPITALISM

The truth of capitalism must be judged by the yardstick of the free dom that each person can keep and increase. It is clear that today the managers, like the hired workers, are caught in the gears of national and international decisions that limit their freedom. I often have the feeling that the material well-being of the West was acquired at the price of a sort of moral decline of the populations. Therefore, it is necessary to state clearly the distinction between an economy founded on freedom of enterprise and a capitalist system founded on the profit motive Economic freedom implies our responsibility as men before God and our fellow citizens. It is not an absolute without rules or limits. It is at the service of everyone's good. Its objective is the friendship of all in the civilization. It must therefore be regulated by a certain sobriety and temperance, or else it becomes blind and violent. A freedom that aims only at profit ends up destroying itself.


Excuse me, but capitalism is defined as "Private ownership of the means of production and distribution, operated for profit, in a competitive environment."

Name two capitalists from the New Testament -- Joseph and Jesus. They were carpenters (they owned their tools, the means of production), them made their living with those tools (profit) and they weren't the only carpenters in Judea (competitive.)

How can you divorce profit from freedom of enterprise? You can't. Take away the profit and the enterprise goes with it.


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 Post subject: Re: gherkin!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:41 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
Cardinal Sarah contra capitalism

Preach it, Cardinal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

It's kind of more funner to say "brother." :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: gherkin!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:19 pm 
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Vern Humphrey wrote:
Name two capitalists from the New Testament -- Joseph and Jesus. They were carpenters (they owned their tools, the means of production), them made their living with those tools (profit) and they weren't the only carpenters in Judea (competitive.

And Jesus also said the rich won't make it to heaven, and asked a guy to sell all his possessions, and the early church held property in common.

I'm not advocating Marxism or socialism - far from it, and so is gherkin. But there's more to it than you make it seem from your Biblical reference. As gherkin observed elsewhere wrt bookstores, capitalism is one thing and its story about itself is another.

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: gherkin!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:35 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
Vern Humphrey wrote:
Name two capitalists from the New Testament -- Joseph and Jesus. They were carpenters (they owned their tools, the means of production), them made their living with those tools (profit) and they weren't the only carpenters in Judea (competitive.

And Jesus also said the rich won't make it to heaven, and asked a guy to sell all his possessions, and the early church held property in common.


Acts 5,32
The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common.

Notice the use of the past tense -- by the time Luke wrote the practice was no longer in effect. Why? Because the Church in Jerusalem went bankrupt.

Note Paul's efforts to collect money for the Church in Jerusalem -- the pyramid scheme (and that's what it was) had brought economic disaster on the Christians of Jerusalem. A man has a field. He plows and harvests, and gets enough to feed his family, and a bit more to pay his tithe. When he gave the field to the Church, it was sold, and the next year he did not plow or harvest -- he had no field! He went from being a productive member of society to a man dependent on charity.

And Jesus also said:
Matthew 20,15 "Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’


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 Post subject: Re: gherkin!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:52 am 
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You are taking that statement from Matthew 20 incredibly far out of context.

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 Post subject: Re: gherkin!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:12 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
You are taking that statement from Matthew 20 incredibly far out of context.

How so? The owner of the vineyard CHOSE to spend his money as he saw fit. Do you disagree?
And he challenged his detractors, telling them he had a right to do that. Do you disagree?

How do you see this passage:

Matthew 25, 14-28

14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. 15 To one he gave five bags of gold, to another two bags, and to another one bag,[a] each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. 17 So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. 18 But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.

19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five bags of gold. See, I have gained five more.’

21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

22 “The man with two bags of gold also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two bags of gold; see, I have gained two more.’

23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

24 “Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’

26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Is this not a commandment to use what God has given us to best effect? If we do not work, or don't work to our full potential, we fail in our duty to those in need.


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