Doug, and others:
I am concerned about this and other ministries that purport to advocate Catholic teaching and yet do as you allege. Shouldn't the Vatican or US Conference of Bishops or some authority give Catholics a stamp of approval or disavow or condemn any ministry that does not comport with the catechism? Why don't they do this to make it more clear for all of us?

I am confused by the lack of guidance. Why should we hear that something like Renew is an "un"-catholic ministry from a message board? Shouldn't this be something that is passed down from the Bishops to all diocesan parishes?

There are actually some bishops who endorse Renew. Yes, there are liberal bishops who embrace the agenda. If I'm not mistaken when Renew came out several years ago, it was downright disgusting with agenda. I believe the bishops did crack down on that one, but the Renew crowd revised it and it became more subtle.

The Vatican IS cracking down on dissadents, but that doesn't mean that the dissadents, some priests included, are going to obey the Vatican, therefore we have programs like Renew, Why Catholic, etc.

I don't the problem is as much lack of guidence as it is lack of obedience to the Church.

For those new to the faith or learning the faith, this board is an excellent source of information. If you ever have a question about any program, book, etc, post it on the board. Its very likely that someone here has had experience with it and can tell you if its good or bad.

God Bless,
Doug

So what was your final take on Why catholic?

Stephen,

The program has its good and bad points. It's strong in that it draws heavily upon the Catechism and the Bible for the lessons, but it's a bit tough to follow and a little too modern for my taste.

I just make sure my group knows what the Church teachings truly are on the subjects that are discussed.

I haven't had a chance to be on forum for a while, but read this thread with interest as our diocese is about to implement it. Seems this thread started last year, so ... those who went through it .... what were your final impressions?

Hi Bobswife,

We actually just started our second 6-week session tonight, the upside is the fellowship it encourages, the down side is, is that there will be a significant group of people who will want more meat than what is offered.

It can be a little mamby-pamby, but it can also be as good as you make it, right now I give it a C for content and a B+ for assisting in meeting previously unknown members of the Parish.

Yeah, sounds like a lot of scripture study and Renew stuff. I appreciate your update and look forward to any other concerns you might run across ... don't know if I'll have time to participate in it next year, our parish is dwindling and maybe we won't even be around then ... but it'd be nice to have forewarning about any "mushy" spiritual focus, etc.

Our parish has recently started this program and it has been great so far. The book is the same for the facilitator and the group members. The book also has the Imprimatur and the Nihil Obstat. So how can it be made from a group of dissidents?

Bmoore,

I know this is going to sound discouraging to hear, but the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur are not the only thing one should consider. One must also consider who granted them, and the orthodoxy of that person.

Sometimes, very heretical materials are published and appear to be legit because of Nihil Obstat or Imprimatur. Revocation is not unheard of. "Christ Among Us" is a great example of this...the Imprimatur was revoked in 1984 (?- date uncertain, but I think that's the date) because of the content of the book. In the meantime, this book was used in many faith formation and RCIA programs. Sadly, it is still being used today in some places.

Rather than just rely on the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, it is also good to compare the content of the book with the actual teachings of the Church, and this forum is a pretty good place to do that most of the time!

Dani

Thanks for the heads up on the Imprimatur. I will continue to use this site for reference. It has not steered me wrong so far.

We started "Why Catholic" this past Sunday. Even with the misgivings of folks on this thread, I thought it would be a good thing for us as our parish has had a rough past 3 or 4 years, many people left and we are still struggling to stay afloat. I am going mostly as a community-building thing -- I know those words probably make you shudder <G> -- but in our situation I think that will be good.

The gal who is leading our group is very solid; I've known her for over 25 years and she was one of the people who helped me stumble my way back to The True Church. This afternoon, Hubby and I read the Catechism parts for next week and had a cool discussion (domestic Church in action?) about them.

But I would still appreciate any "watch for falling rocks"-type signs from those of you who have completed the first segment. I noticed in the back that there are handouts (which we aren't doing at our parish - probably too expensive) but one of them was to have a feature on Karl Rahner. Oooookay ...

I may not have much time to visit here the next couple of months ... haven't had time for a loooong time, actually ... but again if anyone wants to give us a heads-up on tricky parts to come, feel free.

To start - I'm rock-solid in my Catholic faith. Let's be clear, I am NOT for women priests, married priests, and other such nonsense. In other words, I'm just a concerned messenger and not a dissident.

I went to the website and looked at the profiles of the folks in charge of RENEW. I also searched the web for evidence that they are not in line with Church teaching and I tell ya, I cannot find any concrete examples of anything wrong. It might be out there, I just cannot find it.

I ask for the simple reason that we need to be careful and not bear false witness (if willfully, a serious sin).

Do you have any links? We have started the Why Catholic program at our parish. Our priest, is very orthodox (for example, lots of homilies about the serious sins of abc, abortion, homosexuality, and etc.) He doesn't mince words and tells it like it is. I would like some strong evidence that the "Why Catholic" program is heretical so I can let him know.

Thanks in advance!

Peetem

RENEWs end goal is connecting people to the social justice agenda of the left. While social justice is important, for the heterodox left it is often times preached as the purpose of Catholicism or is over emphasized. It often extends itself into heterodox positions in the name of social justice.

RENEWs new president is a Dominican sister from an order associated with LCWR, an association of liberal women religious administrators. Just click on the link and try and find someone in a habit on the website. As opposed to its "sister" organization CMSWR

RENEW's new president is a graduate of Aquinas Institute of St. Louis, the hotbed of Dominican dissidents in America who's previous president resigned rather than face the wrath of Rome over his public opposition to the Pope's instructions concerning ordination of homosexual priests and the apostolistic visitation to his seminary. The Aquinas Institute is affiliated with St. Louis University a "Jesuit University". The first to abdicate itself to lay leadership in the "spirit of Vatican II" in 1967.

There were problems with RENEW 2000 does that automatically mean there are problems now with RENEW materials? No, but one has to suspicious, especially in light of their new leadership. They are well aware of the controversy RENEW 2000 caused and are not going to be so gullible as to advertise their heterodoxy again. Unfortunately, the only way to tell for sure is to purchase the materials and read them. I would rather put my money into efforts by others with a better track record whose leaders have a solid orthodox background.

Edit: FYI many diocese such as the Diocese of Dallas, forced the program on parishes.

OK -

I started digging into the "Why Catholic?" program.....

Last night I was asked, by another CCD teacher, to hold my CCD class at a local coffee shop. The shop is owned by good Catholic's and their son is in my high-school aged class. Apparently while CCD is meeting, some of the parents meet at the shop for their "Why Catholic?" program.

So I go up there this morning to get a cup of joe and the owner also asks me to come teach next week. We started chatting and I told her that I might have some reservations as to the orthodoxy of the "Why Catholic?" program and its' association to Renew 2000 which had problems - however at this point I was only investigating and didn't want to cause a fuss; just wanted her to be on the "lookout".

So she tells me, well now that you mention it, they had a prayer to "Mother Earth". She would get me the book to look at and that she had a problem with it at the meeting, but didn't say anything - I defended her by telling her that stepping up in a group to protest a "Church approved" program could be difficult. However, get me the book and I would be happy to meet with everyone and discuss next week.

Soooo - I hope to have the book by this afternoon. Maybe she misunderstood the context, I don't know. But, if it is hertical could I scan a page and get it posted?

We should all know about program if it is wrong.....

Peetem

Someone posted this early on and I just wanted to mention that most of the time when you see some 'new program' being introduced into a parish, it is not coming from the pastor, but from the bishop's office. Sometimes a program will be diocesan wide, but most of the time they will just have selected parishes (to start with) and the pastor has no say so.....he is told....introduce or do this program or else!
Often too the pastor must promote things he himself does not approve of....but he must act enthused about at the direction of the bishop. The only thing that can help him is if he can tell the bishop that people don't want it and are complaining....or he can't get anyone to participate.

One renew type program in our diocese many years ago fell apart in the selected parishes because people caught on and just wouldn't take part in it.....so it faded out. The bishop got too many complaints and no cooperation.

Oftentimes even bishops can be sold a bill of goods by outside consultants with wonderful "new" catholic programs. They almost always involve "small groups".

Small groups according to Robert Lipton, an expert on brainwashing, are the easiest way to "change people's thinking". Think of the communist chinese home cell groups. Many protestant churches have been taken in big time by the 'small group' programs and there has been a push for years starting with 'renew' to get these things going in the Catholic parishes....under many different names.

OK -

An update to my investigation....

There are some small elements which I think are a little, awkward, but overall everything seems to be in-line with Church teaching.

I read the prayer from the "Why Catholic" book titled "The Profession of Faith - What we believe" and it was the "Canticle of the Creatures" written by St. Francis of Assisi. Taken out of context, people could think the prayer is something it isn't -pagan.

At this point the jury is still out for me....

Peetem

Peetem,
What was the Mother Earth prayer??????

You might want to add the 'Envision' program to this thread. My mother's parish recently went through this whole Envision thing and it's from these same folks.

Here's the site.

Thanks St. Brigid.