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 Post subject: Info on coptic christians and orthodox chuch
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:36 pm 
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I'm a bit confused. I had started to reply to someone on a forum, and through trying to research the history of the Coptic church, I began to go in circles. Now I'm not sure whether the Coptic church is what we call the Orthodox church.

Does someone have a "map" to set me straight here? And whatever other superfluous information that may be floating around in your heads about the coptic church would be gladly absorbed by me.

BTW: This person said that the coptic church was around before the catholic church.... I'm getting a migraine here! :?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:37 pm 
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Copts are not Orthodox; historically, they were monophysitic, and rejected the Council of Chalcedon.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:48 am 
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Each Orthodox church governs itself. There really is no Eastern Orthodox church but rather more than a dozen seperate Orthodox churchs. The Copts bishop is also known as the Pope as when they broke from the church the bishops were all nicknamed Pope which just means father.
Some Orthodox churches such as the copts left the church earlier than 1024 schism
The Copts left at Chalcedon around 451AD
The Armenain Apostolic Church is kind of its own church the relations with other Orthodox churches have been chilly and in some ways they are closer to us.
They were in union with Rome as late as the Crusades far latter than the other Orthodox churches. Since they like to talk and represent themselves and don't associate themselves with the Orthodox they would be our best bet of reunion. They really don't care what the Patriarch of Moscow or Greece says. WHo have been rather cold towards JP2 ecunmecial outreach. The Copts have better relations with the other Orthodox churches and would probably want their blessing before reunion with Rome but they are more independant than most Orthodox and would be the second best bet with reunion with Rome. But you never know how the holy spirit will work. They all might come in together or they may never come back to Rome.
But I do think the Armenians will one day reunite with Rome.
To me the Russian orthodox church has always had incestious relationship with its state whether it be czars, communism, or its quasi restricited democracy they have right now. That would make it difficult for them to drop a relationship which gurantees monolithic church terreritories and support financially from the state in return for poltical favors. They will deny this but this is the way the RO has operated for most of its 1000 years minus the initial Communist persecution.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:30 am 
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The Coptic Churches are what we call the Oriental Orthodox (means Eastern)

As mentioned they seperated with the Church in 431 over disagreements with the Council of Calcedon.

The Coptic Churches are comprised by Syrian, Egyptian\Alexandrian Ethopian and Indian Churches, with the primary See being Alexandria, which was founded by St. Mark. And most Copts today are Egyptian Christians.

The current heir to the Chair of St. Mark is Pope Shenouda III ( yes they call him Pope, for the same reason we call ours Pope, it means 'Father') They are NOT claiming that their Pope is also the heir to the Chair of St. Peter.

We actually have warm relations with the Coptic Churches. The theological points of Calcedon have been resolved. Unlike the Orthodox, Catholics can recieve the Sacraments at a Coptic Church, but only in case of emergency and Catholic clergy are not accessable. Keep that in mind if you are ever sick in a hosptial in Cairo ;)

We have a Coptic Church very near our house (St. Marks) They are a wonderful people and you should get to know them better.

Here is a link for more information www.copticchurch.net

I would recommend http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/theo ... christ.pdf for an outline on the theological differences that seperated us.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:52 pm 
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You might also find this link to the Egyptian Coptic Church useful:
http://st-takla.org/Coptic-church-1.html

The Egyptian Coptic Church used the liturgies of St. Mark and St. Basil (replaced the Liturgy of St. Mark) The liturgy of St. Mark is older than the Gospels. The Institution Narrative, is a part of this ancient liturgy and it’s the story of the first Eucharist and how the Lord instituted it.

This Narrative existed prior to the gospels and it has some details not mentioned in the later gospel accounts. It’s quite beautiful.

You can find the The Institution Narrative in the Liturgy of St. Basil at this link.

http://www.coptic.net/prayers/StBasilLiturgy.html

Alex


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:05 pm 
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I'm too late to edit my post, but just wanted to add that The Institution Narrative in the Liturgy of St. Mark, as well as St. James, the Latin Rite and other ancient liturgies show that The Real Presence in the Eucharist was celebrated at the very inception of the Church.

The Church has always been a living, ministering church even before the Canon of the Bible was determined.

Alex

Here's the Liturgy of St. Mark:

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-07/anf ... 74_2651209


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