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Concelebrants?
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Author:  Jackie [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:20 am ]
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As I understand it, there is no ad-libbing allowed during the actual words of consecration. I believe that would make it invalid - the bread & wine would not become the body and blood of Christ.

You are correct that the fraction (breaking of the host) is not supposed to happen at the consecration, however I don't know if that alone would make it invalid or just illicit.

Author:  Anonymous [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:27 pm ]
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My impression was that he has said this so many times he just spoke while looking at us - ad libbing but without a major change in the concepts. I was a little uncomfortable but my eyes almost popped out of my head when I heard the breaking of the host...I don't know why that bothered me so much. Hmm. I hope this did not make it invalid. This is my parish - not one of the many parishes I've been to where I've seen all kinds of liturgical abuses...

Isn't there a document that lists what makes a mass illicit and what makes it invalid? It seems like I was reading through something like that not long ago...can't remember, though.

Author:  Anonymous [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:07 pm ]
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matteo d'basio wrote:
It is a clear violation of the GIRM when a EMHC picks up the host out of the paten instead of having it given to him/her by the priest, or when the EMHC picks up the chalice from the altar to recieve Holy Communion from it. Concelebrant priests take a host directly from the paten before the presiding priest says: "This is the Lamb of God ...." and consume the host at the same time as the presiding priest. Only concelebrating priests do this, not EMHC. Concelebrant priests pick up the chalice from the altar.


Father Matteo,

I'm not familiar with the Latin practice, but do deacons, serving at the liturgy, receive the Body of Our Lord after the priest-concelebrants, and consume with them? This is the practice of the Byzantine Church. Additionally, in our practice, priest-concelebrants receive the chalice from the altar, while the deacons (also considered concelebrants in a manner of speaking) receive the chalice from the hands of the bishop (whether celebrating or presiding) or priest, when no bishop is present.

Author:  Anonymous [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:34 pm ]
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Jackie wrote:
As I understand it, there is no ad-libbing allowed during the actual words of consecration. I believe that would make it invalid - the bread & wine would not become the body and blood of Christ.


The priest must say "This is my Body" and "This is my Blood" for the consecration to be valid. He must then consume both species.

Leaving out the other words of consecration is illicit and a grave sin, but it doesn't make the Mass invalid.

Author:  Jackie [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:48 pm ]
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CuriosiTkilled_kat -

In his book “Mass Confusion,” Jimmy Akin writes:
Quote:
It is gravely illicit (not permitted) to use any formula for consecration other than one printed in a translation of the rite of Mass that has been confirmed by the Holy See. If the degree of departure is substantial enough, the consecration will be rendered invalid (meaning the elements will not become the Body and Blood of Christ.)
Currently there is only one English translation of the words of consecration over the host that has been confirmed by the Holy See:
Take this, all of you, and eat it:
This is by Body, which will be given up for you.


Perhaps what your priest said was only gravely illicit and not invalid. I hope one of the priest posters will answer the question about the host being fractioned at the consecration. I would like to know the ramifications of that, and like you, I would like to know what might make a Mass invalid.

Author:  matteo d'basio [ Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:58 pm ]
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Deacon John Montalvo wrote:
matteo d'basio wrote:
It is a clear violation of the GIRM when a EMHC picks up the host out of the paten instead of having it given to him/her by the priest, or when the EMHC picks up the chalice from the altar to recieve Holy Communion from it. Concelebrant priests take a host directly from the paten before the presiding priest says: "This is the Lamb of God ...." and consume the host at the same time as the presiding priest. Only concelebrating priests do this, not EMHC. Concelebrant priests pick up the chalice from the altar.


Father Matteo,

I'm not familiar with the Latin practice, but do deacons, serving at the liturgy, receive the Body of Our Lord after the priest-concelebrants, and consume with them? This is the practice of the Byzantine Church. Additionally, in our practice, priest-concelebrants receive the chalice from the altar, while the deacons (also considered concelebrants in a manner of speaking) receive the chalice from the hands of the bishop (whether celebrating or presiding) or priest, when no bishop is present.


In the Latin rite, deacons receive after the priest, from his hands.

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