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 Post subject: "I am with you always"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 8:20 am 
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Question:

In Matthew 28:20 Christ says, "and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Does the Greek word for "with" imply or indicate Christ will be with us physically or is this left up to tradition?

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: "I am with you always"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:32 pm 
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I thought that it meant that He is always with us in the great gift of the Eucharist.


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 Post subject: Re: "I am with you always"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:29 pm 
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Not an expert, but a Greek dictionary says that it is the possessive case. So, I'd say it at least implies a remaining here.

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 Post subject: Re: "I am with you always"
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:21 pm 
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anawim wrote:
Not an expert, but a Greek dictionary says that it is the possessive case. So, I'd say it at least implies a remaining here.


That's what I thought. Which further support the truth about the Eucharist.

Maybe Fr. knows?

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 Post subject: Re: "I am with you always"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:56 am 
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The Host, the Christ was transported to earth as God in the flesh through the new Arc of the Covenant, Mary, the Church and the Spirit. The Eucharist transforms the human flesh to divine flesh through Its powers, recombining with the soul in Heaven to praise and glorify God forever.

In Matthew 28:20 Christ says, "and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

He is here.

Peace always,
Stephen


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 Post subject: Re: "I am with you always"
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:10 pm 
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Peetem wrote:
Question:

In Matthew 28:20 Christ says, "and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Does the Greek word for "with" imply or indicate Christ will be with us physically or is this left up to tradition?

Thanks!


Maybe a good word study in the various uses of the word would help.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/ ... rimary_0_1

Here is the Blue Letter Bible online page that shows all the verses in which Strong's 3326 (μετά (meta) is used. It appears that the most frequent meaning is a strong union of some sort, a joining together with.


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 Post subject: Re: "I am with you always"
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:02 pm 
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I'll admit I know that I know next to nothing about Greek, but I do know that Strong's is close to worthless. What a particular word means must be determined by context, no dictionary can possibly convey the full range of possible implications of any word. And references like Strong's can certainly never tell you whether a word is meant ironically or non-literally. Meaning must be determined by context.

For example consider the following sentence

GODISNOWHERE

Any I saying that God is nowhere, i.e. God doesn't exist, or am I saying God is Now Here? And if so, what do I mean by that, am I a pantheist, a classical monotheist, or am I referring to myself, making a blasphemous assertion that I am God? Or 1,000 other possibilities? This must be determined by context. A dictionary is of limited use

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 Post subject: Re: "I am with you always"
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:51 pm 
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Doom wrote:
I'll admit I know that I know next to nothing about Greek, but I do know that Strong's is close to worthless. What a particular word means must be determined by context, no dictionary can possibly convey the full range of possible implications of any word. And references like Strong's can certainly never tell you whether a word is meant ironically or non-literally. Meaning must be determined by context.

For example, consider the following sentence

GODISNOWHERE

Any I saying that God is nowhere, i.e. God doesn't exist, or am I saying God is Now Here? And if so, what do I mean by that, am I a pantheist, a classical monotheist, or am I referring to myself, making a blasphemous assertion that I am God? Or 1,000 other possibilities? This must be determined by context. A dictionary is of limited use


Okay, but the page I gave gives a list of all the verses in the NT where the word appears so that word could be seen in the different contexts and how it is used in different verses. I wasn't suggesting just a quick glance at the Strong's definition.

BTW - what Bible dictionary do you find most accurate?


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 Post subject: Re: "I am with you always"
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:41 am 
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Peetem wrote:
Question:

In Matthew 28:20 Christ says, "and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Does the Greek word for "with" imply or indicate Christ will be with us physically or is this left up to tradition?

Thanks!

I suppose it's "left up to tradition," to use your language here. The word translated "with" here is just a normal preposition. It has a range of uses, including with (there are other words translated "with", too), but in the end, it really just means "with." It's up to the interpreter to look to context and things along those lines to ask, "In what sense is He with us"? That's not really something decided by, or for that much all that informed by, the Greek word

edit:

One more note, just to show you something. The word is translated with something like 350 times in the NT. Here are the first few instances we see it in Matthew: God is with us (Matt 1:23); Jerusalem was troubled, along with Herod (Matt 2:3); Jesus was with His mother (Matt 2:11); James and John were with their father in a boat (Matt 4:21).

You can probably imagine that people can take "with" in a somewhat different sense in each of these. That's not because the Greek word means anything different. It's because word is used, at times, in the same way we use our English word "with." So our word "with" often captures the way the Greeks used that word. Same in the Great Commission.

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Indeed, the Lord Jesus, when He prayed to the Father, "that all may be one. . . as we are one" (John 17:21-22) opened up vistas closed to human reason, for He implied a certain likeness between the union of the divine Persons, and the unity of God's sons in truth and charity. This likeness reveals that man, who is the only creature on earth which God willed for itself, cannot fully find himself except through a sincere gift of himself. ~ Pope Paul VI, Gaudium et Spes 24.3


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 Post subject: Re: "I am with you always"
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:53 pm 
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theJack wrote:
Peetem wrote:
Question:

In Matthew 28:20 Christ says, "and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

Does the Greek word for "with" imply or indicate Christ will be with us physically or is this left up to tradition?

Thanks!

I suppose it's "left up to tradition," to use your language here. The word translated "with" here is just a normal preposition. It has a range of uses, including with (there are other words translated "with", too), but in the end, it really just means "with." It's up to the interpreter to look to context and things along those lines to ask, "In what sense is He with us"? That's not really something decided by, or for that much all that informed by, the Greek word

edit:

One more note, just to show you something. The word is translated with something like 350 times in the NT. Here are the first few instances we see it in Matthew: God is with us (Matt 1:23); Jerusalem was troubled, along with Herod (Matt 2:3); Jesus was with His mother (Matt 2:11); James and John were with their father in a boat (Matt 4:21).

You can probably imagine that people can take "with" in a somewhat different sense in each of these. That's not because the Greek word means anything different. It's because word is used, at times, in the same way we use our English word "with." So our word "with" often captures the way the Greeks used that word. Same in the Great Commission.


Makes sense. Also adds to what Doom said - need to understand the context.

In my original question, I'm not sure one can entirely tell from the context what Jesus meant. In Matthew 28 Jesus is not ascending, the Gospel just ends with those words. If we assume His next act was ascending into Heaven, then it means one thing. If we assume Jesus continues with other activities on the earth, then it could mean something different.

Regardless, many thanks for everyone's thoughtful replies!

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 Post subject: Re: "I am with you always"
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:58 pm 
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I always understand that to be the gift of the Holy Spirit, Jesus told them that he would not leave them as orphans, but would send a helper...

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