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 Post subject: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teaching?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:57 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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About meekness, non-violence etc?

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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:50 am 
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No

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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:53 am 
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Where did Jesus say we should practice nonviolence? I don't remember that passage of the gospel.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:00 am 
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Doom wrote:
Where did Jesus say we should practice nonviolence? I don't remember that passage of the gospel.

Non-aggressive-violence. "Shall perish by the sword".

Also, "turn the other cheek".

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:00 am 
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Peregrinator wrote:
No

Can you explain, please?

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:49 pm 
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It was righteous anger.

It wasn't just someone giving a put-down insult to another.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:06 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Doom wrote:
Where did Jesus say we should practice nonviolence? I don't remember that passage of the gospel.

Non-aggressive-violence. "Shall perish by the sword".

Also, "turn the other cheek".


So you think Jedus taught absolute pacifism?

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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:24 am 
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Defense is an exception.

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:13 pm 
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Jesus' teaching here seems clear to me:

Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

He is telling the Apostles they will need the means of self-defense.

Apropos of this, Josephus tells that the Essenes regarded each other as brothers, and every Essene was welcome in other Essene's house, "For which reason they carry nothing at all with them when they travel into remote parts, though still they take their weapons with them, for fear of thieves. "

But in the Garden of Gethsemane Peter drew his sword and cut off the ear of the servant of the High Priest, "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again. He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword (Matthew 26:52)

"To live by the sword" was to be an outlaw. Peter's action was not an act of legitimate self-defense, but a crime, resisting arrest . The Apostles might, by Peter's action, be outlawed and hunted down.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:48 am 
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Would a meek and merciful person commit violence against non-aggressors?

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:15 am 
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Who are the non-aggressors in this scenario?

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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:44 pm 
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The businessmen

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:54 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
The businessmen

How do you figure?

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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:04 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
The businessmen

How do you figure?

We're getting wrapped up in words. The grifters and cheats are the ones he drove out. And yes, it is legitimate to use force against crooks like that if they won't go quietly.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:55 am 
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To the last sentence: why?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:55 am 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
The businessmen

How do you figure?

They didn't commit violence.

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:32 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
To the last sentence: why?

Because they are committing crimes and will not stop.

Now a question for you. Are you qualified to judge God?

Then how do you presume to question the morality of His actions?


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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:00 am 
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Vern Humphrey wrote:
Now a question for you. Are you qualified to judge God?

Then how do you presume to question the morality of His actions?

I see an apparent contradiction bw gentleness and Jesus' actions. But I also know he doesn't sin. So I just want to resolve it and ask for help to see it correctly.

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:34 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
The businessmen

How do you figure?

They didn't commit violence.


I think you're using a very narrow definition of "violence". They did violence to the sanctity of the Temple.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:30 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Vern Humphrey wrote:
Now a question for you. Are you qualified to judge God?

Then how do you presume to question the morality of His actions?

I see an apparent contradiction bw gentleness and Jesus' actions. But I also know he doesn't sin. So I just want to resolve it and ask for help to see it correctly.

He took action to drive out criminals and grifters who wouldn't go peacefully.


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