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 Post subject: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:22 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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What is humility and why is it a good thing?

Suppose a violinist plays well, and then he downplays his excellence. What virtue did he exhibit?

Can the case for humility be made without invoking God?

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:07 pm 
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Humility is honesty. The violinist who downplays his own performance, despite knowing it is good, is not humble, The violinist who goes to a concert by his greatest rival and is willing to praise it as it deserves--he is humble.

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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:32 pm 
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Humility is honesty? That's more than saying that humility isn't dishonest; are you saying that a perfectly honest person is necessarily humble?

Also, is humility a good thing solely because it is an "instrumental" virtue, ie it's good as it allows you to appreciate the rival violinist whom you otherwise would not appreciate, or behave well to a person you might otherwise consider inferior?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:34 pm 
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More precisely: Humility is honesty with respect to yourself and to others.

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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:02 pm 
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Thank you. Can you explain this further, please, and name a source or scholar who draws this link between humility and honesty?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 8:21 pm 
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.

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:24 pm 
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Quote:
“The Enemy wants to bring the man to a state of mind in which he could design the best cathedral in the world, and know it to be the best, and rejoice in the fact, without being any more (or less) or otherwise glad at having done it than he would be if it had been done by another. The Enemy wants him, in the end, to be so free from any bias in his own favour that he can rejoice in his own talents as frankly and gratefully as in his neighbour's talents--or in a sunrise, an elephant, or a waterfall.”
C. S. Lewis, Screwtape Letters

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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:41 am 
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1. Do you have a source that explicitly states humility to be a particular application of humility?

2. What is the secular case for humility?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:27 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
What is humility and why is it a good thing?

Suppose a violinist plays well, and then he downplays his excellence. What virtue did he exhibit?

Can the case for humility be made without invoking God?

Take a look at all the quarrels you've ever had. How many of them were really about ego -- "Well, I won't put up with THAT!" Humility is about being able to submerge your own ego and subdue your anger.


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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:17 pm 
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I don't understand question 1.

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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:11 pm 
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Sorry, it was supposed to honesty the second time.

I'm asking for a source for "humility is honesty...".

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:16 pm 
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Go here:
https://www.ignatianspirituality.com/ho ... %20honesty.

"Honesty is an integral part of humility, which means saying yes to our humanness, accepting both the agony and the ecstasy of our creaturehood. We are of the earth—humus—and are called to embrace the totality of who we are. To accept our limitations and fulfill our potential takes courage. Humility—accepting the truth—requires honesty."


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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:23 pm 
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^ Thank you for finding that.

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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:20 pm 
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Thank you.

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:24 pm 
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Is humility based on the common limits of men (eg our mortality), or of the particular limits and inabilities of individuals (eg my ignorance of violins and Spanish), or an equal mixture of both?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: On humility: its nature and virtuousness
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:30 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
Is humility based on the common limits of men (eg our mortality), or of the particular limits and inabilities of individuals (eg my ignorance of violins and Spanish), or an equal mixture of both?

I can't fly -- and I'm not humble about that. I can raise children, and I am humble about that.

Humility is about our own personal limitations.


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