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 Post subject: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:07 am 
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Where is it taught by the Church that this is not possible?

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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:50 am 
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Ordaining women is so completely contrary to 2000 years of Church practice that frankly it shouldn't actually have to be said, it ought to be obvious.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:01 am 
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Ott calls it "sent. fidei proxima" that women can't be ordained deacons. (It's de fide for priests and bishops.)

    A Teaching proximate to Faith (sententia fidei proxima) is a doctrine, which is regarded by theologians generally as a truth of Revelation, but which is not yet been finally promulgated as such by the Church.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:34 am 
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So, for one not versed, at all, in theology, did you say?:

Although the Church has not formally stated that women cannot be deacons, there is other doctrine that would be violated if women were allowed to be deacons.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:35 am 
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The crux is the unicity of holy orders. We know they cannot be priests. But Holy Orders is one sacrament. If they could be deacons, then they can receive that one sacrament, and hence could be priests

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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:38 am 
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Thank you. For the lingua franca. That's the second post of yours that I've understood.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:11 pm 
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There is already an active thread on this topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:21 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:21 pm 
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Denise Dee, you may ask questions in this forum. You may not offer your opinion as an answer to questions of others. Jack3 asked his question in this forum to get answers from people who are qualified to answer. You are not one of those people. Save your arguments for the thread in the Lyceum.


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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:02 pm 
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I'm not quite sure where I put my copy of Denzinger (you'd think it would be too big to lose, but I'm really good at this), but when I find it, I will see what documents it gives for this under the subject index.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:09 pm 
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Highlander wrote:
So, for one not versed, at all, in theology, did you say?:

Although the Church has not formally stated that women cannot be deacons, there is other doctrine that would be violated if women were allowed to be deacons.


I think it would be nothing less than asinine fatuity to suggest that although women cannot be ordained as priests, they can nevertheless can be ordained as deacons. This isn't even a position anyone really holds rather the people arguing for female deacons are only using it as kind of test case for them to be ordained as priests.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:25 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Denise Dee, you may ask questions in this forum. You may not offer your opinion as an answer to questions of others. Jack3 asked his question in this forum to get answers from people who are qualified to answer. You are not one of those people. Save your arguments for the thread in the Lyceum.

Mrs Timmy, I am not accusing you of deliberately lying, but I can state with certainty that you are not telling the truth in suggesting that I offered my opinion. All I did was repeat the two facts already stated by Obi in this statement:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Ott calls it "sent. fidei proxima" that women can't be ordained deacons. (It's de fide for priests and bishops.)


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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:26 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Denise Dee, you may ask questions in this forum. You may not offer your opinion as an answer to questions of others. Jack3 asked his question in this forum to get answers from people who are qualified to answer. You are not one of those people. Save your arguments for the thread in the Lyceum.

Mrs Timmy, I am not accusing you of deliberately lying, but I can state with certainty that you are not telling the truth in suggesting that I offered my opinion. All I did was repeat the two facts already stated by Obi in this statement:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Ott calls it "sent. fidei proxima" that women can't be ordained deacons. (It's de fide for priests and bishops.)


That was me, not Mrs. Timmy. Her comment would have been in green. Your comment was argumentative. End of discussion, for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:46 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Highlander wrote:
So, for one not versed, at all, in theology, did you say?:

Although the Church has not formally stated that women cannot be deacons, there is other doctrine that would be violated if women were allowed to be deacons.


I think it would be nothing less than asinine fatuity to suggest that although women cannot be ordained as priests, they can nevertheless can be ordained as deacons. This isn't even a position anyone really holds rather the people arguing for female deacons are only using it as kind of test case for them to be ordained as priests.


100% no doubt.


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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:53 pm 
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Zeno wrote:
There is already an active thread on this topic.

I wanted non-debate answers from a Catholic perspective.

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:12 pm 
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Didn't Obi and PED provide an answer?

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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:20 pm 
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Follow-up questions can reasonably be asked.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:24 pm 
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Highlander wrote:
Didn't Obi and PED provide an answer?

Yes. I explained why I started this thread when there's another one on this topic.

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:25 pm 
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Can women be admitted to instituted ministries or minor orders?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Why not female deacons?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:36 pm 
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I'm not sure what law covers the minor orders since they're no longer in the Code of Canon Law. The Code of Canon Law does specify "men" (viri) for lector and acolyte; whether that is of divine law depends on what you think the ministries of acolyte and lector are--specifically what their connection is to the sacrament of Holy Order. I am not aware of anything addressing that question.

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