Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 10 posts ]   
Author Message
 Post subject: Something fundamental. Are we God's children or creation?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:56 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:44 pm
Posts: 13
Religion: Mormon
This spawns from the differing worldview of the LDS church vs most of Christendom.

The view of the LDS church is we are the literal spirit offspring of God. (Don't ask me the mechanical portion of this.)
With this view, we existed with God before we were here, and our goal is to return to be with him. He still made our bodies in Eden, but our eternal spirit is from him.

My understanding of the non LDS view is that he made our bodies in Eden, and breathed our spirit into us at that point, and that at conception (or somewhere thereabouts) he puts the spirit of the child into the body. But in this view we are most definitely his creation, both our spirit and our body are created by him. Honestly this is learned by me through osmosis, a few of the important mechanical parts I've never really discussed with anyone.

To further complicate my understandings, I was brought up protestant, and I was taught that we lived with God before we were here, so that view I know can exist apart from the LDS view of the pre mortal existence.

I ask all of this as it really constitutes two views of God, and some of this is taken as extrapolation of LDS sermons and my own understanding.

From the LDS thought process or at least mine) we are born of an eternal being who exists outside of time, whether there are more of these beings is not taught about, but definitely speculated on. This is of importance as it makes God all powerful, and our only object of worship, but not the unmoved mover. Though he still exists outside a plain of cause and effect as best I understand.

From the non LDS view point, God created everything Ex Nihilo, and there is no existence beyond the trinity. He MADE our bodies and our spirits to hopefully return to be with him, just as in the LDS thought process, though there are the obvious differences of thought on the afterlife. But the goal remains the same, eternal life.

But those two ideas beg the question and the nature of the relationship, are we begotten, or made?

I hope this makes sense, and this idea is something that is central to understanding of our relationship with God, so I have been kicking it about. And I hope this makes sense...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Something fundamental. Are we God's children or creatio
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:26 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82648
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Made, but adopted as children.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Something fundamental. Are we God's children or creatio
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:14 am 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:44 pm
Posts: 13
Religion: Mormon
That being said, what do you take Hebrews 12:9 by chance?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Something fundamental. Are we God's children or creatio
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:04 am 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 82648
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
I'm not seeing an issue with that verse and what I said. Can you explain your question a little more, please?

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Something fundamental. Are we God's children or creatio
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:26 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:44 pm
Posts: 13
Religion: Mormon
Hate to necro, but at the same time, this question has returned with a vengeance in the forefront of my mind. I am going to look at the verse I posted to clarify but also wanted to seek fresh insight on this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Something fundamental. Are we God's children or creatio
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:28 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:44 pm
Posts: 13
Religion: Mormon
I would say I am using that verse to bring out the statement that God is the father of our spirits, which is an LDS belief in the literal sense. Our spirits are the literal offspring of God.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Something fundamental. Are we God's children or creatio
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:04 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:04 pm
Posts: 315
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th KofC
Commander South wrote:
I would say I am using that verse to bring out the statement that God is the father of our spirits, which is an LDS belief in the literal sense. Our spirits are the literal offspring of God.

Then how do you believe we are made in His image?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Something fundamental. Are we God's children or creatio
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:35 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:04 am
Posts: 6409
Location: "Fish-shape Paumanok where I was born"
Religion: Catholic of the Roman Rite
Commander South wrote:
I would say I am using that verse to bring out the statement that God is the father of our spirits, which is an LDS belief in the literal sense. Our spirits are the literal offspring of God.


In the LDS belief, "Heavenly Father" is not the single uncreated Creator who made all things ex nihilo, and who transcends his creation. Instead, he is a creature of another so-called "God" about whom we know nothing, and a physical man of flesh and bones who becomes "father" to "spirit children" through physical reproduction involving sexual congress with one or more "heavenly Mothers." Furthermore, in Mormon belief, there is no such thing as an incorporeal spirit that is distinct from matter. Instead, the Mormon teaching is that "spirit" is a physical, corporeal substance, although it is "more fine or pure" than regular earthly matter.

Since Mormons and Christians do not mean the same things at all when using the words "God", "Father", or "spirit", it is impossible to equate an orthodox Christian understanding of this verse in Hebrews with the way Mormons understand it.

_________________
BOSWELL: "Have not they vexed yourself a little, Sir? Have not you been vexed by all the turbulence of this reign?"
JOHNSON: "Sir, I have never slept an hour less, nor eat an ounce less meat. I would have knocked the factious dogs on the head, to be sure; but I was not vexed."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Something fundamental. Are we God's children or creatio
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:55 am 
Offline
Trophy Dwarf
Trophy Dwarf
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:10 pm
Posts: 34650
Location: Here in the center holding my bleeding heart...
Religion: Catholic Convert
Church Affiliations: Dorothy Day Guild
Custos wrote:
Commander South wrote:
I would say I am using that verse to bring out the statement that God is the father of our spirits, which is an LDS belief in the literal sense. Our spirits are the literal offspring of God.


In the LDS belief, "Heavenly Father" is not the single uncreated Creator who made all things ex nihilo, and who transcends his creation. Instead, he is a creature of another so-called "God" about whom we know nothing, and a physical man of flesh and bones who becomes "father" to "spirit children" through physical reproduction involving sexual congress with one or more "heavenly Mothers." Furthermore, in Mormon belief, there is no such thing as an incorporeal spirit that is distinct from matter. Instead, the Mormon teaching is that "spirit" is a physical, corporeal substance, although it is "more fine or pure" than regular earthly matter.

Since Mormons and Christians do not mean the same things at all when using the words "God", "Father", or "spirit", it is impossible to equate an orthodox Christian understanding of this verse in Hebrews with the way Mormons understand it.


What he said. ^^^^

To equate a polytheistic religion with Christianity is only going to make you more frustrated.

Out there in the world, the new Disney/Pixar movie "Soul" uses the idea of a rhelm of already created souls just waiting for a body.

_________________
Living life on prayers and hooks and needles...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Something fundamental. Are we God's children or creatio
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:57 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:47 am
Posts: 8358
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Third Order Lay Carmelite
What Custos and kage-ar said above!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1   [ 10 posts ]   


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


Jump to: