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 Post subject: The Sin of Simulation?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:07 pm 
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I heard once, that if you re-played a movie and knew that God's Name would be taken in vain and watched it anyway, that you could be guilty of the sin of simulation. Has anyone else ever heard this? Can anyone give details?

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Last edited by Rushintuit on Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: THE SIN OF SIMULATION...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:34 pm 
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Huh? Never heard of such a thing

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 Post subject: Re: THE SIN OF SIMULATION...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:50 pm 
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The only sin involving the word simulation that I can recall refers to someone simulating a Sacrament.

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 Post subject: Re: THE SIN OF SIMULATION...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:52 pm 
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I've never heard of the "sin of simulation."

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 Post subject: Re: THE SIN OF SIMULATION...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:58 pm 
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Rushintuit wrote:
I heard once, that if you re-played a movie and knew that God's Name would be taken in vain and watched it anyway, that you could be guilty of the sin of simulation. Has anyone else ever heard this? Can anyone give details?

I am supposing that someone is getting a few things mixed up

Simulation is the sin involve when someone performs the actions involved in a sacrament without the intention of actually conferring the Sacrament, with others who think a sacrament is in fact happening. If I were to step in the priest side of a confession and hear confessions, and say "I absolve you" and all that I would be guilty of simulation. Are if a priest who does not intend to consecrate the Host (and therefore doesn't) goes up to practice Mass and includes in that saying the words of consecration and all that, he would be guilty of simulation. It wouldn't be simulation, for instance, to perform such a thing in circumstances where no one thinks a sacramental act is happening...for instance, in a movie when a couple "marry" each other. Since that is being done before a camera for a work of fiction there is no question of a simulated marriage. Whereas if they did this in a public Church so that people looking on thought they were getting married in reality it would be. (Hitchcock in his moves went as far as not allowing the full sacramental words to be said, to avoid any hint of simulation and most priests I know who had to practice Mass simply omit the words of consecration)


Using God's name in vain would usually fall under profanity (blasphemy is only involved in speech or gesture that contains contempt or insult to God...to say you hate God is blasphemy, to say G-- d--n it is profanity, not blasphemy). Profanity (as used in moral theology) is the disrespectful use of the Holy Name whether in anger or carelessness. Profanity in itself is usually only a venial sin, not a mortal sin (it can become a mortal sin). By extension one can blaspheme or profane the saints and holy objects because they refer back to God.


Now my guess is that the person talking to you heard that simulation was a mortal sin, and perhaps someone gave the example of movies (especially 60 years or more ago there was a lot more question about whether it was simulation to have a factitious sacrament on the screen, see Hitchcock or the fact that Bing Cosby asked permission of the Church to wear clerical garb in a movie) and conversations being the way they are he made have been talking about various problems with movies (including profanity) and somewhere the concepts got confused.

Now as far as it being a mortal sin to watch a movie that had profanity in it, I would say not likely. I would think it could be in certain circumstances (such as when you know you will cause grave scandal by showing it to a certain person). But since profanity is in itself a venial sin, I don't see how merely watching/hearing it willingly is a mortal sin aside from giving scandal. And while I hate to state anything universally, I don't think it is inherently a sin to watch a movie that has that (it would depend on the character of the profanity and merits of the movie and frankly your own dispositions. Unless it ill effects you badly, mere profanity that happens here or there I think is little concern. It may be better to not watch the movie, but not a sin to watch it. Blasphemy would be a different question and I think it would be wrong, especially if the movie itself had a blasphemous plot/basis etc

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 Post subject: Re: THE SIN OF SIMULATION...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:43 am 
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I thought using the name of the Lord in vain deliberately was a mortal sin...

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 Post subject: Re: THE SIN OF SIMULATION...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:17 am 
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Benedetta wrote:
I thought using the name of the Lord in vain deliberately was a mortal sin...

Again, what do you mean by "using the Lord's name in vain"

The mortal sin would be swearing by His name rashly or in trivial matters, or with no intention to fulfill it. But that is the sin of swearing. That is the primary sense of "do not take the Lord's name in vain"

What most people actually mean by it is profanity...not hatred or insult to God, not swearing, but merely things like OMG! and "zounds!" and "bloody". This are not mortal sins in themselves, but venial

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 Post subject: Re: THE SIN OF SIMULATION...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Makes perfect sense Pro, thank you. Of course we want to avoid deliberate venial sins don't we?

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 Post subject: Re: THE SIN OF SIMULATION...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:01 pm 
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Rushintuit wrote:
Makes perfect sense Pro, thank you. Of course we want to avoid deliberate venial sins don't we?

Yes. To say it is venial is not a green or even a yellow light to act

But say it happens per chance in a show or movie? And take a rather benign case, where it is said rather through careless habit (such as when people say "oh my God" without a moment's reflection) than any malice. Is it a venial sin to watch a movie that has that? All else being equal, I would say no.

There are 9 ways we can join in another's sin

1.By Counsel- when we advise them how to do it or encourage them
2.By Command- when we order them to do it
3.By Consent
4.By Concealment
5.By Defense of Evil Done
6.By Partaking
7.By Provocation- when, for instance, I anger someone so much that he curses God
8.By Praise
9.By Silence

I could only see possibly 3 or 9. But 9 is only really joining when there is some obligation to speak. If I do not report that I saw Bob kill Sally I am involved through silence. But obviously we cannot at times speak. And in 3 it would be sufficient that we reject such behavior to avoid it in this case. That is my opinion at least

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 Post subject: Re: THE SIN OF SIMULATION...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:15 pm 
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
Benedetta wrote:
I thought using the name of the Lord in vain deliberately was a mortal sin...

Again, what do you mean by "using the Lord's name in vain"

The mortal sin would be swearing by His name rashly or in trivial matters, or with no intention to fulfill it. But that is the sin of swearing. That is the primary sense of "do not take the Lord's name in vain"

What most people actually mean by it is profanity...not hatred or insult to God, not swearing, but merely things like OMG! and "zounds!" and "bloody". This are not mortal sins in themselves, but venial


Oh I see. So if I let "oh my G-d" slip out in exasperation or surprise, that's "only" profanity?

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 Post subject: Re: THE SIN OF SIMULATION...
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Benedetta wrote:
Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
Benedetta wrote:
I thought using the name of the Lord in vain deliberately was a mortal sin...

Again, what do you mean by "using the Lord's name in vain"

The mortal sin would be swearing by His name rashly or in trivial matters, or with no intention to fulfill it. But that is the sin of swearing. That is the primary sense of "do not take the Lord's name in vain"

What most people actually mean by it is profanity...not hatred or insult to God, not swearing, but merely things like OMG! and "zounds!" and "bloody". This are not mortal sins in themselves, but venial


Oh I see. So if I let "oh my G-d" slip out in exasperation or surprise, that's "only" profanity?

That is my understanding, yes

Prummer, OP has this

"Taking the name of God in vain is specifically forbidden in the second precept of the Decalogue, «Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain» by which precept certainly we are forbidden to speak vainly, that is irreverently, the name of God but also the names of saints and of holy things. Such vain takings of the name of God or of holy persons or things are, for example, "Oh my God" "Oh Jesus" etc. Aside from scandal these sort of vain takings are a venial sin against the virtue of religion. For in this way irreverences born to God are not so grave as to constitute a grave sin, since neither from their meaning nor from the intention of those speaking is the honor of God directly impugned. Nevertheless everyone, but most especially priests and religious, ought to painstakingly avoid such exclamations, because they are useful for nothing, at times give scandal and are always venially evil."

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 Post subject: Re: THE SIN OF SIMULATION...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:45 pm 
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It's always a good practice to whisper a quick prayer of reparation anytime you hear God's name spoken out of context.

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 Post subject: Re: THE SIN OF SIMULATION...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:51 pm 
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Thanks PED.

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 Post subject: Re: The Sin of Simulation?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:36 pm 
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It is objectively grave matter to take the Lord’s name in vain.


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 Post subject: Re: The Sin of Simulation?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:13 pm 
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iamCatholic wrote:
It is objectively grave matter to take the Lord’s name in vain.


Why do you not only resurrect a 12-year-old thread in your first post, but do so in order to make a point that has already been addressed?

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 Post subject: Re: The Sin of Simulation?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:23 pm 
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I miss PED.

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