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 Post subject: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:36 am 
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I have always used John 19: 20 to explain sacred languages, those being Greek, Hebrew, and Latin since they were consecrated on the Cross... but I just discovered some biblical texts replace Hebrew with Aramaic, whats the deal? Isnt Aramaic a derivitive of Hebrew and use the same alphabet? Or is this a protestant thing?


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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:48 pm 
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Aramaic was the language of the Syrians from the 6th. c. B. C. Jews picked it up during the Babylonian captivity. Even though Babylon was modern day Iraq, it was spoken in a broader area.

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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:44 pm 
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Hebrew had its own alphabet (or alephbet as it's sometimes called), but that was lost/abandoned during the exile and replaced by the block Aramaic letters we now associated with Hebrew.

If you look at the names of the first few letters in Greek and in Hebrew you get:

alpha/aleph
beta/bet
gamma/gamel

So you can see the names line up, but the shapes now used are very different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet

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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:42 pm 
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FYI: Aramaic still spoken by a few hundred thousand in Syria & Turkey.
We have a priest in our state who is from west Syria and Aramaic is his first language (followed by Arabic then English)

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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:05 pm 
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It doesn't really matter because that passage is NOT the basis for the idea of sacred language.

It is in fact a principal of the sociology of religion that the language used in a religious context tends to become fixed in one specific time and place. This is why nearly every religion has a sacred language, these sacred languages are all pretty much all archaic language that ceased to be used anywhere else.
Hinduism has Sanskrit, Islam has 7th century Arabic, etc even Protestants have developed their own sacred languages, this explains the obsession of some sects with the KJV. This is even true of non- English Protestants, in Spanish there is the Reina Valera and in German the Luther translation.

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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:23 pm 
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Stargazer wrote:
I have always used John 19: 20 to explain sacred languages, those being Greek, Hebrew, and Latin since they were consecrated on the Cross... but I just discovered some biblical texts replace Hebrew with Aramaic, whats the deal? Isnt Aramaic a derivitive of Hebrew and use the same alphabet? Or is this a protestant thing?


:scratch: Languages were sanctified on the Cross :scratch:

I've heard/read a lot of things in my day. This is a first.

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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:56 pm 
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I've heard this before.

Of course it's belied by the fact that the Church's sacred language is now Italian (this is a bit tongue-in-cheek, no need to get upset folks!!!!).

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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:34 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
I've heard this before.

Of course it's belied by the fact that the Church's sacred language is now Italian (this is a bit tongue-in-cheek, no need to get upset folks!!!!).


Is it a fringe protestant thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:02 pm 
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kage_ar wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
I've heard this before.

Of course it's belied by the fact that the Church's sacred language is now Italian (this is a bit tongue-in-cheek, no need to get upset folks!!!!).


Is it a fringe protestant thing?


No

https://liturgyguy.com/2015/01/25/the-sacrifice-of-the-cross-and-the-language-of-the-liturgy/

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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:49 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Hebrew had its own alphabet (or alephbet as it's sometimes called), but that was lost/abandoned during the exile and replaced by the block Aramaic letters we now associated with Hebrew.

If you look at the names of the first few letters in Greek and in Hebrew you get:

alpha/aleph
beta/bet
gamma/gamel

So you can see the names line up, but the shapes now used are very different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet

Ok, so Hebrew was first and then came Aramaic, developed from the exile. So, I guess my question is, should the verse like is found in my Douay Rhemes say, "Greek Hebrew and Latin", or should it say, "Greek, Aramaic and Latin?

It seems to be the protestants switched Hebrew to Aramaic how do you confuse that in translation?


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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:01 pm 
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kage_ar wrote:
Stargazer wrote:
I have always used John 19: 20 to explain sacred languages, those being Greek, Hebrew, and Latin since they were consecrated on the Cross... but I just discovered some biblical texts replace Hebrew with Aramaic, whats the deal? Isnt Aramaic a derivitive of Hebrew and use the same alphabet? Or is this a protestant thing?


:scratch: Languages were sanctified on the Cross :scratch:

I've heard/read a lot of things in my day. This is a first.

Why would this shock you so?
I'm sure there are plenty other truths out there to be learned that you have never heard of.
I learn things almost everyday that may not be commonly known. Don't you? and if not why not?


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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:15 pm 
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hebraice, græce, et latine From the Latin Vulgate


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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:37 pm 
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From the Greek translation it is Helbraisti, Hellinist, Romaisti; Hebrew Greek and Latin. But again I believe some protestant biblical texts insist on Aramaic, why?


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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:25 am 
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Peregrinator wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
I've heard this before.

Of course it's belied by the fact that the Church's sacred language is now Italian (this is a bit tongue-in-cheek, no need to get upset folks!!!!).


Is it a fringe protestant thing?


No

https://liturgyguy.com/2015/01/25/the-s ... e-liturgy/


Of course, that makes perfect sense. It is not that these human languages were consecrated, that they are the languages that have a tie back to that specific moment in both human and sacred history.

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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:26 am 
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Stargazer wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Stargazer wrote:
I have always used John 19: 20 to explain sacred languages, those being Greek, Hebrew, and Latin since they were consecrated on the Cross... but I just discovered some biblical texts replace Hebrew with Aramaic, whats the deal? Isnt Aramaic a derivitive of Hebrew and use the same alphabet? Or is this a protestant thing?


:scratch: Languages were sanctified on the Cross :scratch:

I've heard/read a lot of things in my day. This is a first.

Why would this shock you so?
I'm sure there are plenty other truths out there to be learned that you have never heard of.
I learn things almost everyday that may not be commonly known. Don't you? and if not why not?


I can see you are new here.

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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:18 pm 
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kage_ar wrote:
Stargazer wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Stargazer wrote:
I have always used John 19: 20 to explain sacred languages, those being Greek, Hebrew, and Latin since they were consecrated on the Cross... but I just discovered some biblical texts replace Hebrew with Aramaic, whats the deal? Isnt Aramaic a derivitive of Hebrew and use the same alphabet? Or is this a protestant thing?


:scratch: Languages were sanctified on the Cross :scratch:

I've heard/read a lot of things in my day. This is a first.

Why would this shock you so?
I'm sure there are plenty other truths out there to be learned that you have never heard of.
I learn things almost everyday that may not be commonly known. Don't you? and if not why not?


I can see you are new here.

Actually I was on here prior to 2005 by another name, not sure the point anyway.
The point being that God put three languages on the very instrument of our Lord's passion and death.
Nothing is random with God.


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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:34 pm 
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Doom wrote:
It doesn't really matter because that passage is NOT the basis for the idea of sacred language.

It is in fact a principal of the sociology of religion that the language used in a religious context tends to become fixed in one specific time and place. This is why nearly every religion has a sacred language, these sacred languages are all pretty much all archaic language that ceased to be used anywhere else.
Hinduism has Sanskrit, Islam has 7th century Arabic, etc even Protestants have developed their own sacred languages, this explains the obsession of some sects with the KJV. This is even true of non- English Protestants, in Spanish there is the Reina Valera and in German the Luther translation.


It is in fact a design of the One True God, who placed on the very instrument of our Lord's passion and death three languages. Yes nearly all religions have a language associated with it but the big difference is that they are all pagans or heretics, NOT a design of God. I agree the scripture passage is not the basis for the idea of sacred language in general why would it be? Other religions dont read the new Testament. But it is a sign from God that is meant for us and the One True faith. Hebrew is so fantastic that it could have only come from God. God is not some random sociologic construct.


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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:31 pm 
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Seriously? Hebrew can only have come from God?

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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 10:25 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Seriously? Hebrew can only have come from God?



Whoa! Ok before I go off the deep end. So you do not believe Hebrew could have come from God?


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 Post subject: Re: Sacred Languages
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 2:15 pm 
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Stargazer wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Seriously? Hebrew can only have come from God?



Whoa! Ok before I go off the deep end. So you do not believe Hebrew could have come from God?

Only in the sense that everything comes from God.

If Hebrew "comes from God" in a special sense, what about Egyptian, Arabic, Aramaic and Phoenician? Those are all closely related languages.


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