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 Post subject: What to learn from Jacob and Esau?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:47 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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 Post subject: Re: What to learn from Jacob and Esau?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:37 pm 
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Predestination ante praevista merita.

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 Post subject: Re: What to learn from Jacob and Esau?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:10 pm 
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What are more simple people to learn :D

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: What to learn from Jacob and Esau?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:31 pm 
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Is there any moral lesson, and is there any simpler insight on God?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: What to learn from Jacob and Esau?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:57 pm 
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Don't sell your birthright for a mess of pottage? I'm not sure what you're looking for here.

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 Post subject: Re: What to learn from Jacob and Esau?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:45 pm 
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The "why" of the story. Why is it in the Bible, why do families teach it to their kids etc.

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: What to learn from Jacob and Esau?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:31 pm 
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Could it be just as simple as showing the lineage of the Messiah? Many of the stories in the Bible have to do with Christ's lineage.


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 Post subject: Re: What to learn from Jacob and Esau?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:12 am 
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Jack3 wrote:
The "why" of the story. Why is it in the Bible, why do families teach it to their kids etc.


It's not at all the why of the story, but Jeff Cavins pointed out something interesting: Jacob did get his come-uppance. When he was unable to see in the dark, Leah was given him as a bride instead of Rachel.

As to the why of the story, I don't know. But I should imagine it is because it happened and was significant, and from it different and sometimes surprising lessons can be drawn, emphasising different aspects.

What is quite clear is that the Bible does not edit out bad behaviour.

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 Post subject: Re: What to learn from Jacob and Esau?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:46 am 
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The Old Testament is the literature, history, music and religion of the Jews. Look at it in that light, and it's easy to understand why many of the books of the Bible are there.


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 Post subject: Re: What to learn from Jacob and Esau?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:11 pm 
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With the exception of Shem, the lineage of the patriarchs does not go through the first born. Israel (the nation) was the first born, but the ultimate lineage bypasses them and continues to the Gentiles, who are grafted in as the church.

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 Post subject: Re: What to learn from Jacob and Esau?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:06 pm 
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Quote:
but the ultimate lineage bypasses them and continues to the Gentiles, who are grafted in as the church.


I like this idea.

Also, I believe that the stories of the patriarchs include the theme that God’s ways are not man’s ways. God chose the descendants of Abraham to be the chosen people, not because they were perfect, or that they didn’t sin, but that they would ultimately be faithful to him. Even when they strayed, they ultimately were able to see their sinfulness and return to the Lord.

In other words, they were very flawed and very human, but they, perhaps more than any other group, were able to learn the lessons that God wanted to teach them (and later, us) to prepare the way for God’s ultimate act of salvation.

So in that context, we have a young mama’s boy in Jacob, who cheats his way to the birthright. And yet, as Rachel understood, Jacob would ultimately be a better leader and father for the 12 tribes of Israel than Esau. As Jacob grows, he matures, and he prays, and he trusts in God even though he is fearful to the point of death.

The struggle against the angel (God) that coincides with his struggle against Esau is a deep metaphor, and a profound teaching moment for us all. It is only in Jacob humbling himself before his brother Esau, and asking for forgiveness, that Esau’s heart is melted and he embraces Jacob. The moment so profoundly changes Jacob, that he is given a new name, Israel, “one who wrestled with God”, which also becomes the name (theme) of the chosen people.


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