Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 2   [ 33 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:43 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:37 pm
Posts: 6191
Location: Bergen, Norway
Religion: High Church Lutheran
Church Affiliations: Church of Norway
Jack3 wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
The businessmen

How do you figure?

They didn't commit violence.
They didn't? Can you define violence?

_________________
Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο

“Being religious means asking passionately the question of the meaning of our existence and being willing to receive answers, even if the answers hurt.” — Paul Tillich

http://katolikken.wordpress.com/
English texts: http://katolikken.wordpress.com/tag/english-texts-2/

https://twitter.com/kkringlebotten

http://www.facebook.com/kjetilkringlebotten


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:05 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:04 pm
Posts: 476
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th KofC
Jack3 wrote:
Doom wrote:
Where did Jesus say we should practice nonviolence? I don't remember that passage of the gospel.

Non-aggressive-violence. "Shall perish by the sword".


No, that's about respect for authority. Jesus told the Apostles to buy swords for self-defense. But when Peter struck at the servant of the High Priest, that was not self-defense, that was resisting arrest. As a result of that, Christians could have been declared outlaws.

A person who "lives by the sword" is an outlaw. Unable to work, earn and buy the necessities of life, he must steal them by force.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:47 am 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76516
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
Vern Humphrey wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
Doom wrote:
Where did Jesus say we should practice nonviolence? I don't remember that passage of the gospel.

Non-aggressive-violence. "Shall perish by the sword".


No, that's about respect for authority. Jesus told the Apostles to buy swords for self-defense. But when Peter struck at the servant of the High Priest, that was not self-defense, that was resisting arrest. As a result of that, Christians could have been declared outlaws.

A person who "lives by the sword" is an outlaw. Unable to work, earn and buy the necessities of life, he must steal them by force.


His comment about buying swords was not about self-defense, nor did he mean literal swords, he was speaking figuratively

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:47 am 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:23 pm
Posts: 4632
Location: A Little West of New Orleans
Religion: Roman Catholic
Church Affiliations: Cursillo & KofC
Doom wrote:
Vern Humphrey wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
Doom wrote:
Where did Jesus say we should practice nonviolence? I don't remember that passage of the gospel.

Non-aggressive-violence. "Shall perish by the sword".


No, that's about respect for authority. Jesus told the Apostles to buy swords for self-defense. But when Peter struck at the servant of the High Priest, that was not self-defense, that was resisting arrest. As a result of that, Christians could have been declared outlaws.

A person who "lives by the sword" is an outlaw. Unable to work, earn and buy the necessities of life, he must steal them by force.


His comment about buying swords was not about self-defense, nor did he mean literal swords, he was speaking figuratively

Every time I read it, it seems pretty darn literal...

_________________
Pope Francis is not the Marshall Monster, Marshall is the Marshall Monster.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:22 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 76516
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
Doom wrote:
Vern Humphrey wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
Doom wrote:
Where did Jesus say we should practice nonviolence? I don't remember that passage of the gospel.

Non-aggressive-violence. "Shall perish by the sword".


No, that's about respect for authority. Jesus told the Apostles to buy swords for self-defense. But when Peter struck at the servant of the High Priest, that was not self-defense, that was resisting arrest. As a result of that, Christians could have been declared outlaws.

A person who "lives by the sword" is an outlaw. Unable to work, earn and buy the necessities of life, he must steal them by force.


His comment about buying swords was not about self-defense, nor did he mean literal swords, he was speaking figuratively

Every time I read it, it seems pretty darn literal...

So then why did Jesus respond with spparent irritation st their dull minded literalness 'enough of this'?

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:13 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:04 pm
Posts: 476
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th KofC
Luke 22, 36-38

36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

38The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”

“That’s enough!” he replied.

Where's the irritation? He warns them they must go armed for self-defense, and they show him they have two swords.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 5:17 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:36 am
Posts: 9283
Location: India
Religion: Catholic (Syro Malabar)
Closet Catholic wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
The businessmen

How do you figure?

They didn't commit violence.
They didn't? Can you define violence?

behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.

_________________
"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 9:03 am 
Offline
Criminally Insane Cucumber
Criminally Insane Cucumber
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:20 pm
Posts: 33752
Location: The countertop
Religion: The True One
Church Affiliations: OblSB
Jack3 wrote:
I see an apparent contradiction bw gentleness and Jesus' actions. But I also know he doesn't sin. So I just want to resolve it and ask for help to see it correctly.

It's not just that our Lord doesn't sin. It is, rather, that his actions themselves are instruction. The things he did while he was with us--especially the things he did that were recorded by the Evangelists--are themselves expressions of his doctrine. So it's not that he doesn't sin by driving out the money changers, it's that in driving out the money changers he is (a) driving out the money changers and (b) teaching us something important. You ask a lot of questions, and that is obviously good. But sometimes it seems that you want a kind of vending machine-type response, where you come up with a puzzle and go looking for the key to its solution. Indeed, it fairly often seems to me like you get frustrated with me when instead of giving you simple answers I push you to meditate on the matter for yourself.

But there is no other way.

_________________
Suscipe me secundum eloquium tuum, et vivam: et non confundas me ab exspectatione mea.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:30 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:37 pm
Posts: 6191
Location: Bergen, Norway
Religion: High Church Lutheran
Church Affiliations: Church of Norway
Jack3 wrote:
Closet Catholic wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Jack3 wrote:
The businessmen

How do you figure?

They didn't commit violence.
They didn't? Can you define violence?

behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
That's only part of the definition of violence. Changing a text to say something it is not suppose to say, for example, is doing violence to the text. And not figuratively. Turning the outer court of the temple - which is where the gentiles were supposed to be able to pray - into a marketplace is also violence, and not figuratively.

_________________
Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο

“Being religious means asking passionately the question of the meaning of our existence and being willing to receive answers, even if the answers hurt.” — Paul Tillich

http://katolikken.wordpress.com/
English texts: http://katolikken.wordpress.com/tag/english-texts-2/

https://twitter.com/kkringlebotten

http://www.facebook.com/kjetilkringlebotten


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 11:27 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:36 am
Posts: 9283
Location: India
Religion: Catholic (Syro Malabar)
Okay

_________________
"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 11:54 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:36 am
Posts: 9283
Location: India
Religion: Catholic (Syro Malabar)
On a related note, Jordan Peterson says 'the meek" mean those who have swords but don't use them. Those who are capable of inflicting harm but choose not to.

Thoughts?

_________________
"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 9:58 am 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:04 pm
Posts: 476
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th KofC
Jack3 wrote:
On a related note, Jordan Peterson says 'the meek" mean those who have swords but don't use them. Those who are capable of inflicting harm but choose not to.

Thoughts?

If I keep my .45 in my holster, I inherit the earth?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cleansing the temple: did Jesus disregard his own teachi
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:21 am 
Offline
Prodigal Son of Thunder
Prodigal Son of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:54 am
Posts: 40406
Location: Ithilien
Religion: Dunedain Catholic
Church Affiliations: AWC, CSB, UIGSE-FSE (FNE)
Jack3 wrote:
On a related note, Jordan Peterson says 'the meek" mean those who have swords but don't use them. Those who are capable of inflicting harm but choose not to.

Thoughts?

What do the Fathers say about it?

_________________
Formerly Bagheera

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the King." (1 Peter 2:17)
Federation of North-American Explorers - North Star Group - How You Can Help


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 2   [ 33 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


Jump to: