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 Post subject: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:14 am 
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Which part of the Bible describes his fall?

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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:33 am 
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It doesn't, not explicitly. There are oblique references that were woven into the legend of the fall of Lucifer by pre-Christian Jews, an interpretive tradition that was taken over by the Church Fathers. It is similar to the 'apple' in the Garden of Eden where does the Bible say that it was an apple? it doesn't, it simply says 'fruit', since it is said that they covered themselves with fig leaves, it seems likely that the 'forbidden fruit' was a fig.

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Last edited by Doom on Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:25 pm 
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I agree with Doom

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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:08 pm 
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The fruit in the Garden is probably called an apple because the Latin word for apple is "mala," which is also the word for "evils."

Some claim it was a quince, but that's not possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:42 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Which part of the Bible describes his fall?


Revelation 12:7-12

That sounds like the fall of the angels to me. Lucifer=dragon said "Non servium"...("I will not serve"),
after something was revealed to him. (I believe it was St. Thomas Aquinas who taught that?)

I was taught by my pastor when very young that Lucifer means Light. He was a very high angel, but rebelled and took down a third of the stars of heaven who rebelled with him. (Rev. 12:4)


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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:13 am 
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Luke 10:18 (NRSVCE)

18 He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like a flash of lightning."

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Last edited by Peetem on Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:18 am 
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Ezekiel 28:15-19 (NRSVCE)

15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day that you were created,
until iniquity was found in you.
16 In the abundance of your trade
you were filled with violence, and you sinned;
so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God,
and the guardian cherub drove you out
from among the stones of fire.
17 Your heart was proud because of your beauty;
you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I exposed you before kings,
to feast their eyes on you.
18 By the multitude of your iniquities,
in the unrighteousness of your trade,
you profaned your sanctuaries.
So I brought out fire from within you;
it consumed you,
and I turned you to ashes on the earth
in the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who know you among the peoples
are appalled at you;
you have come to a dreadful end
and shall be no more forever.

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Last edited by Peetem on Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:20 am 
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Isaiah 14:12-17 (NRSVCE)

12 How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
13 You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
on the heights of Zaphon;[a]
14 I will ascend to the tops of the clouds,
I will make myself like the Most High.”
15 But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the depths of the Pit.
16 Those who see you will stare at you,
and ponder over you:
“Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,
17 who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who would not let his prisoners go home?”

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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:46 pm 
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Thank you Peetem for all those other scriptures re: Lucifer's fall!


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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:05 pm 
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Dorothy B. wrote:
Thank you Peetem for all those other scriptures re Lucifer's fall!


No one really knows what those verses from Ezekial are about, they are among the most enigmatic passages in the entire Bible, there are many theories of what they refer to, that it refers to a legend of the fall of Lucifer was an interpretive tradition developed by the pre-Christian Jews and taken over by the Church Fathers. But this was actually a minority opinion among the Jews, the majority believed that the passage referred to Israel itself and its history of rebellion against God. The passages are far from explicit and require a great deal of interpretation.

And appealing to the book of Revelation, the most confusing book in the entire Bible, doesn't really establish it either.\

It is similar to the bizarre story in Genesis 6 about 'the sons of God mating with the daughters of men', there is an elaborate tradition that has survived into our present-day about angels having sex with human women and begetting a race of half-God/half Man. But the passage doesn't actually say anything like that, it's a very old tradition only.

Nowhere in the Bible does it explicitly explain who 'Satan' (literally, The Accuser) is or what his origin might be. There is nothing explicit, it requires a great deal of interpretation.

Here is another thing that is widely believed, but the Bible doesn't actually explicitly say is that the 'serpent' in the Garden of Eden was Satan in disguise. The text actually makes it seem like it was just an ordinary snake.

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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:46 am 
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Ezekiel 28 is addressed to Sidon (in modern day Lebanon), and Isaiah 14 is addressed to the king of Babylon.

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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:17 am 
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The great thing about the Bible is it has so many layers....

Ezk 28 and Isaiah 14 may very well not be addressing Lucifer directly. However, just as Israel is a "type" of the Church, the ark of the covenant is a "type" of the BVM, Moses is a "type" of Christ, so too Sidon and the king of Babylon may be "types" of the devil. We certainly know there have been types of the anti-Christ in scripture as well....

@Doom - re: Genesis 6 - its not as an elaborate interpretation than one might think that, "...there is an elaborate tradition that has survived into our present-day about angels having sex with human women and begetting a race of half-God/half Man..."

I would offer Jimmy Akin does a great job addressing this mystery - https://sqpn.com/2020/03/the-mysterious-nephilim-of-the-bible-aliens-angels-or-something-else/

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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:56 am 
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Peetem wrote:
The great thing about the Bible is it has so many layers....

Ezk 28 and Isaiah 14 may very well not be addressing Lucifer directly. However, just as Israel is a "type" of the Church, the ark of the covenant is a "type" of the BVM, Moses is a "type" of Christ, so too Sidon and the king of Babylon may be "types" of the devil. We certainly know there have been types of the anti-Christ in scripture as well....


True. All of Israel's enemies are types of spiritual battle that we can all relate to.

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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:34 pm 
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Peetem wrote:
The great thing about the Bible is it has so many layers....

Ezk 28 and Isaiah 14 may very well not be addressing Lucifer directly. However, just as Israel is a "type" of the Church, the ark of the covenant is a "type" of the BVM, Moses is a "type" of Christ, so too Sidon and the king of Babylon may be "types" of the devil. We certainly know there have been types of the anti-Christ in scripture as well....

@Doom - re: Genesis 6 - its not as an elaborate interpretation than one might think that, "...there is an elaborate tradition that has survived into our present-day about angels having sex with human women and begetting a race of half-God/half Man..."

I would offer Jimmy Akin does a great job addressing this mystery - https://sqpn.com/2020/03/the-mysterious-nephilim-of-the-bible-aliens-angels-or-something-else/


Yes, that is why I said that there is nothing EXPLICIT in the Bible about it. I didn't say your interpretation is incorrect, I said that to apply them to Lucifer requires a great deal of interpretation.

This is true of many things. If someone asked where is the Trinity, or the Papacy, or the Immaculate Conception, or the perpetual virginity of Mary in the Bible? I would say the same, these things are not taught explicitly in scripture, they require interpretation.

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 Post subject: Re: Where in the Bible did Lucifer fall?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:56 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Peetem wrote:
The great thing about the Bible is it has so many layers....

Ezk 28 and Isaiah 14 may very well not be addressing Lucifer directly. However, just as Israel is a "type" of the Church, the ark of the covenant is a "type" of the BVM, Moses is a "type" of Christ, so too Sidon and the king of Babylon may be "types" of the devil. We certainly know there have been types of the anti-Christ in scripture as well....

@Doom - re: Genesis 6 - its not as an elaborate interpretation than one might think that, "...there is an elaborate tradition that has survived into our present-day about angels having sex with human women and begetting a race of half-God/half Man..."

I would offer Jimmy Akin does a great job addressing this mystery - https://sqpn.com/2020/03/the-mysterious-nephilim-of-the-bible-aliens-angels-or-something-else/


Yes, that is why I said that there is nothing EXPLICIT in the Bible about it. I didn't say your interpretation is incorrect, I said that to apply them to Lucifer requires a great deal of interpretation.

This is true of many things. If someone asked where is the Trinity, or the Papacy, or the Immaculate Conception, or the perpetual virginity of Mary in the Bible? I would say the same, these things are not taught explicitly in scripture, they require interpretation.


The three members of the Trinity -- God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit -- are mentioned in the Bible, although not as a group. The Epistles of Paul speak of Bishops (Επίσκοπος or "overseerers') and the Pope is the senior Bishop, and therefore the overseer of the overseers.


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