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 Post subject: a new one! Communion and a protestant theory.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:39 am 
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A gentlemen at work informed me today, that his church does communion once a month (nothing new here). But then he went on to say he offers communion himself at times, much more often (after I quoted "for as often as you eat this bread........"). He'll take a loaf of bread to Sunday school, etc. Basically this was his little hint to let me know (a Catholic), that you don't need a priest to do this. Can you all help me with some intelligent info here I may be able to present him with? I didn't feel I could explain or defend this myself, even though I know! :roll:

God bless!

Jim

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:58 am 
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Evangelicals believe that the bread is a symbol. Ordained ministers are not priests and have no special authority to consecrate and what would they be consecrating anyway, since the bread is only a symbol of Christ's Body. In onter words no one with earthly authority has SENT the minister or this man. The truth is that he is just as qualified to offer communion as is his minister.

As an Evangelical, I never understood what the whole communion thing was about. It seemed to be some fuzzy "we are all the body of Christ" thing but it never made sense. It seemes so empty and contrived.

Now as a Catholic, I understand (at least as much as we can while on earth).

I would say you need to ask him about his understanding of John 6. This IS My Body.

Also do some work on the successor of the apostles and Typology about how the New Testament fullfills the Old. Then you can bring in Melchezidek.

I think that much of the reason Protestants see things differently is base on two words:

IS - they don't take it literally and think it really isn't IS and instead it is SYMBOLIZES

ALONE - They see this word in the Bible where it is not referring to Faith ALONE.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:29 pm 
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"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that ye should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion [of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved. But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils."

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

- Letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:19 pm 
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what if they do the same prayer and things the priest does at a mass? They may feel it does get transformed though they're not a priest.


I speak to people on other boards who do communion themselves and see nothing wrong with it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:29 pm 
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MySavingGrace wrote:
what if they do the same prayer and things the priest does at a mass? They may feel it does get transformed though they're not a priest.


Regardless of their feelings, the bread reamins just that - bread. There is no change. There is no 'communion'. Only priests can consecrate the bread and wine (ie, God 'transforms' the substance of the bread and wine only in response to the prayers of His bishops (and of their priests).

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I speak to people on other boards who do communion themselves and see nothing wrong with it.


Perhaps because there is no change in the bread (and hence, there is no 'communion').


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 Post subject: Re: a new one! Communion and a protestant theory.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:02 pm 
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Jim wrote:
....he offers communion himself at times, much more often (after I quoted "for as often as you eat this bread........"). He'll take a loaf of bread to Sunday school, etc. Basically this was his little hint to let me know (a Catholic), that you don't need a priest to do this..



He is correct. You do not need a priest to be able to eat a loaf of bread. If you want the BBSD (Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity) of Christ, though, you do.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:27 pm 
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C S P B wrote:
As an Evangelical, I never understood what the whole communion thing was about. It seemed to be some fuzzy "we are all the body of Christ" thing but it never made sense. It seemes so empty and contrived.



Your'e right, that is why most evangelical churches usually only have communion once or twice a year, if even that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:31 pm 
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"If it's just a Symbol then to Hell with it!" - flannery O'conner

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 Post subject: Re: a new one! Communion and a protestant theory.....
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:40 pm 
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Jim wrote:
A gentlemen at work informed me today, that his church does communion once a month (nothing new here). But then he went on to say he offers communion himself at times, much more often (after I quoted "for as often as you eat this bread........"). He'll take a loaf of bread to Sunday school, etc. Basically this was his little hint to let me know (a Catholic), that you don't need a priest to do this. Can you all help me with some intelligent info here I may be able to present him with? I didn't feel I could explain or defend this myself, even though I know! :roll:

God bless!

Jim


Ask him if he believes that it "IS the Lord's real Precious Body and Blood...

Then when he says, "NO.", Tell him to read John Ch. 6 verses 51-69...

After he reads it, ask him "where did the followers of Jesus go who thought Jesus was talking about Truly eating His Precious FLESH and drinking His Precious Blood and thought it was a sick, insane, and weird saying and hard to accept? Where did these many disciples go, did they stay or leave because of this wierd saying?

See if he can figure it out, give him a while, if he cant, tell him they left Jesus. And, Jesus never said, "Hey wait!!! That's not what I meant!! Come Back!!!" In fact, he makes matters worse each time he responds to their murmuring, by never correcting Himself and expounding on the subject more about eating His Flesh and Blood...

There's just so MUCH in these texts that one can point out if it is studied hard with faith, but I dont think one can get anywhere unless the Holy SPirit guides them when reading this...

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 Post subject: PDUBYA! Excellently said!!!!!!!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:40 pm 
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:D

That about raps it up! Thanks to all for your help.

Peace in the Eucharist! :wink:

Jim

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Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf. 1 Cor 10:17


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:10 pm 
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MySavingGrace wrote:
what if they do the same prayer and things the priest does at a mass? They may feel it does get transformed though they're not a priest.


I speak to people on other boards who do communion themselves and see nothing wrong with it.
There is no "Magic" in saying the words and prayers. Only a validly ordained Bishop or Priest, from a Church which has maintained its Apostolic Succession, can validly and licitly consecrate the Bread and Wine. Protestants don't have communion with the Body and Blood of Christ. They, by their own theology and beliefs, have a mere symbol. They are Partaking of simple bread and wine (or grape juice). They are not partaking of the Lords Sacrifice. They are like children play acting the part of Apostles. The Real Presence is an Objective Reality. A reality they are not partaking of, regardless of how they feel about it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:17 pm 
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In my experience with evangelicals, (Sadly my beloved brother has been lost to a "non-denom" church) no amount of arguing will open their mind to the truths of the Catholic Church. In my experience, the lies they have heard close their ears and hearts to the truth. Noone can hear the truth who will not first listen.

Good luck with this, keep us posted!

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 Post subject: Thanks hsingmomof4!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:29 pm 
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I understand your point!!! :cry:

However, at some points, I have witnessed, through my example and few words (at appropriate times), they do begin to see, and maybe love!

Don't give up hope my friend (especially for your Brother)!! :)

Peace to you all always!

Jim

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Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf. 1 Cor 10:17


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:12 pm 
You absolutly need a priest there. When Jesus first gave the Eucarist, he ordained the apostles right there and then to continue the Eucarist. Jesus is in the priest as much as you and I, but the priest has an hirarchy(sp) over us and has a special blessing that makes him able to be an instrament for God.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:14 pm 
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When I first started studying Catholicism I had NO idea what the Catholics believed about communion. I had never even heard the word Eucharist before.

When we were growing up we camped quite a bit, and if we were camping on a Sunday, my parents would do church with us kids in our camper - we would sing, read the Bible, and take "communion." They would have those Jewish matzoh loaves you can get at the grocery store, and we'd drink sips of grape juice. That's all I ever thought communion was.

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 Post subject: alterserver!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:30 am 
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Excellent point. Especially saying the priest is "an instrument for God"! When I thanked our parish priest for helping to bring my Mother back to the Church as she was dying, he reminded me, he is just a tool! How awesome and humble!

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Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf. 1 Cor 10:17


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