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 Post subject: byzantine rite question
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:36 pm 
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the Legion of Mary July 1st friday/1st saturday all-nite vigil will be held here

http://www.stjohnchrysostom.com/

my question is... how will a "daily Mass" at a byzantine rite church be different from the Divine Liturgy which is celebrated there each Sunday Mass... what can i look forward to?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:44 pm 
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Other than having some different propers, there isn't much difference. I'm not sure if they say the Creed on a weekday Divine Liturgy or not.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:47 pm 
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bonaventure wrote:
Other than having some different propers, there isn't much difference. I'm not sure if they say the Creed on a weekday Divine Liturgy or not.

I am not sure they normally have daily Divine Liturgies. I know they have many feasts of the presanctfied as well...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:50 pm 
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The ByzCath Church near me does have daily Divine Liturgies. But I believe that it does vary from place to place.

They have missals at the one I attend fs. In them there are little sections that say "propers for DL during the week". I can't remember if I have ever been there on a weekday or not.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:52 pm 
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well, since i can't seem to get myself there for a sunday Mass, this seems like the next best thing... might be what i need to motivate me to go on a sunday :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:55 pm 
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It really is beautiful. I try to go every week or every other week.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:46 am 
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A Byzantine Church(Ruthenian) near me does have daily Divine liturgies. They may have a hard bound Missal you may take a look at.

There is no low Mass or Divine Liturgy in the Byzantine Church. All Divine Liturgies are sung even if it is on a weekday with one priest.

Other Byzantine Churches(Russian, Romanian) or Melkite Greek Churches may have different disciplines.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:34 pm 
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Quote:
the Legion of Mary July 1st friday/1st saturday all-nite vigil will be held here


To start off, while First Friday and First Saturday devotions are wonderful, they don't belong in a Byzantine Rite church even though 'we're all Catholics' and rite is arguably a man-made construct. The church agrees forcefully on paper as Vatican documents have said many times: thou shalt not mix and match rites. That's meant to protect the Eastern traditions from getting squashed by the Roman Rite (IOW Byzantine Catholic practice is supposed to be exactly like Eastern Orthodox practice) ...

... but in practice over the centuries the Eastern Catholics themselves disobeyed that and copied Roman Rite practices, and this includes daily Mass.

In the authentic tradition of the Byzantine Rite you'd only find a daily Liturgy in monasteries, not parish churches.

What Archlayman said is also true of the authentic tradition but in practice a lot of these churches created their version of Low Mass. You probably don't see that much anymore as Rome is telling these churches to be more Eastern, but the retention of daily Liturgy shows that the problem of self-'latinization' remains.

As for the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts (essentially Vespers with Communion from the Reserved Sacrament), that's done during the weekdays of Lent (called Great Lent in this rite), typically once or twice a week. Interestingly, unlike the Roman Rite which does a version of this once a year*, Good Friday (Great Friday) isn't one of those days when it's done.

The Nicene Creed (Symbol of Faith) is never dropped from the Divine Liturgy.

Ruthenian churches are usually very latinized.

*The one time in the Roman Rite when you hear the Byzantine Rite's trisagion prayer: Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy upon us. In the traditional version of the rite it's even done once in Greek! (Like the Kyrie at Mass.) You might know it from the Divine Mercy devotion.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:46 pm 
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Serge, I have seen Saint Theophan the recluse and Saint John Of Kronstadt recommend receiving Holy Communion during the week. Are their opinions in this matter not well received in the east?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:57 pm 
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I imagine not as even weekly Communion isn't a part of Orthodox popular piety. A lot of ethnics only receive a few times a year, a lot like the mediæval West.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:58 pm 
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The young fogey wrote:
I imagine not as even weekly Communion isn't a part of Orthodox popular piety. A lot of ethnics only receive a few times a year, a lot like the mediæval West.


Thanks. Saint Theophan may have been talking about his monks anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:59 pm 
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Exactly. He was a monk! Even so the norm among 19th-century Russian nuns for example was to receive maybe every other week.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:53 pm 
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That sounds wonderful FS! I've planning on going there one of these days - though will not be able to on the 1st. Let us know how it goes! (I'm curious about the church itself as well)

I've been to Greek Orthodox Divine Litergy services, and if the Byzantine services are similar, you can look forward to lots of incense ! It's lovely.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:12 pm 
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The young fogey wrote:
I imagine not as even weekly Communion isn't a part of Orthodox popular piety. A lot of ethnics only receive a few times a year, a lot like the mediæval West.


A lot of the older Greeks in my parish only take the Eucharist at Christmas and Paschal Vigil; second, third, and later generations more often. A friend of mine won't take Communion if she's eaten meat the night before (supposed to abstain) and we both try (being the key word for me.... :oops: ) and fast Wednesdays and Fridays throughout the year.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:36 am 
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Bonaventure wrote:
Serge, I have seen Saint Theophan the recluse and Saint John Of Kronstadt recommend receiving Holy Communion during the week. Are their opinions in this matter not well received in the east?

Somewhere they are well received, whereas somewhere they are not well received. That depends very much on where you live and who are the Bishops. Anyway, receiving Holy Communion at least once a week is a real Orthodox tradition. Some local churches don't follow it.

Well, what I've seen in Orthodox churches here in Finland... Finns receive Holy Communion usually once a week, Russians something between once a week - once a year, I don't know exactly. Romanians are quite active and they have even services in Romanian, though they're a real minority here. Greeks... I assume they don't receive Holy Communion more than few times a year. (Disclaimer: these are only my experiences)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:50 am 
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Maybe you could ask Byzantine Bomber???

Rachel

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