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 Post subject: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:26 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:09 am 
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That depends on what you mean by "natural." In the state of original innocence, no (though Heaven was also not the default destination, so it's not certain what God had in mind, IMHO). Since original sin, with a wounded nature, yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:30 am 
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Thank you

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:11 am 
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I interpreted the question a little differently, as in " did create human beings for the purpose of sending them to hell?" and the answer to that is definitely "no"

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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:14 am 
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I agree with Doom.

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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:17 am 
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The being-banned thread is thataway----->

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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:18 am 
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That's why my answer is what it is. The state of innocence part refutes that theory.

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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:02 am 
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What I was getting at is this: Is heaven the "normal" or"default" destinationb after the fall, and the damned are punished by excluding them from it, or, is hell the default and the blessed are rewarded bt being excluded from it?

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:08 pm 
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Everyone deserves to go to hell, it is only by the grace of God that some avoid that fate

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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:23 pm 
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Journeyman
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Doom wrote:
Everyone deserves to go to hell, it is only by the grace of God that some avoid that fate

How does a person who never asked to be created, who never consented to being created with all the weaknesses he or she was created with, who never chose to be one of the unlucky ones, "deserve to go to hell", the worst and longest punishment possible? For what? For being born!


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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:02 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
What I was getting at is this: Is heaven the "normal" or"default" destinationb after the fall, and the damned are punished by excluding them from it, or, is hell the default and the blessed are rewarded bt being excluded from it?

I'm not sure that "excluded" is the word you want here. "Excepted" might be better.

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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:54 pm 
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https://www.scribd.com/document/67231651/Original-Sin

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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:12 am 
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Thank you.

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:44 am 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Doom wrote:
Everyone deserves to go to hell, it is only by the grace of God that some avoid that fate

How does a person who never asked to be created, who never consented to being created with all the weaknesses he or she was created with, who never chose to be one of the unlucky ones, "deserve to go to hell", the worst and longest punishment possible? For what? For being born!

You speak of "consent" as if God owes us something

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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:09 pm 
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Peregrinator wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Doom wrote:
Everyone deserves to go to hell, it is only by the grace of God that some avoid that fate

How does a person who never asked to be created, who never consented to being created with all the weaknesses he or she was created with, who never chose to be one of the unlucky ones, "deserve to go to hell", the worst and longest punishment possible? For what? For being born!

You speak of "consent" as if God owes us something

Consent has got nothing to do with anyone owing anyone anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:29 pm 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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Denise Dee wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Doom wrote:
Everyone deserves to go to hell, it is only by the grace of God that some avoid that fate

How does a person who never asked to be created, who never consented to being created with all the weaknesses he or she was created with, who never chose to be one of the unlucky ones, "deserve to go to hell", the worst and longest punishment possible? For what? For being born!

You speak of "consent" as if God owes us something

Consent has got nothing to do with anyone owing anyone anything.

Then why would it be bad for someone to be created with weaknesses, etc.? Does God owe us better?

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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:50 am 
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Journeyman
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Peregrinator wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Doom wrote:
Everyone deserves to go to hell, it is only by the grace of God that some avoid that fate

How does a person who never asked to be created, who never consented to being created with all the weaknesses he or she was created with, who never chose to be one of the unlucky ones, "deserve to go to hell", the worst and longest punishment possible? For what? For being born!

You speak of "consent" as if God owes us something

Consent has got nothing to do with anyone owing anyone anything.

Then why would it be bad for someone to be created with weaknesses, etc.? Does God owe us better?

I never said it's bad for someone to be created with weaknesses.

I said it's bad for a creator to create someone with the weaknesses that cause a person to end up in hell suffering for eternity because they were created like that, when they never consented to being created with those weaknesses - so how by any stretch of the imagination could anyone claim that the person who never consented to being created with those weaknesses "deserves to go to hell"?


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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:29 am 
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because they choose to do so :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:16 am 
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faithfulservant wrote:
because they choose to do so :fyi:


Correct.

The Lord's graces are available.


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 Post subject: Re: Is hell the natural fate of man?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:02 am 
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Our Lady's Gladiator
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Dorothy B. wrote:
faithfulservant wrote:
because they choose to do so :fyi:


Correct.

The Lord's graces are available.


for those who wish to avail themselves :yes: :cloud9:

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