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 Post subject: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:38 pm 
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Ave Maria!
I just watched this scene from the movie Apostle: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PSdjQpaZcbw

Does anyone know what they actually did at the church? It is not proper behavior at a church in my opinion. It would probably be scarey if I had witnessed in real life.
I did attend meetings with a Catholic charismatic prayer group and I feel a bit uneasy there. It was actually "weird" to me. It wasn't like in this video but still a bit "Pentecostal" to me. I felt many of them had emotional problems. Another person who went there also found it a bit "weird".
It is like people make religion emotional.
In this movie they also showed some Catholics with a Priest. That felt like real religion. The Priest used holy water.
What can you wise people tell me about this? Why all this emotional religion and now even in the Church?
Some say King David danced but I don't think he went too far into the emotional.
This movie feels very American I must say. How do you Catholics think about thiis?


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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:58 pm 
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I clicked on the site and it was absolutely awful! I don't know anything about the movie it was cut from.

All I can say is that my parish has a small charismatic group and they, in no way, act like that.

It is a small group and they sing, share scripture readings, have silent times in between, and it is quite contemplative. Holy water is also used when we pray over one another.

It is my understanding that what I described is what a prayer group should be like.


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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:59 pm 
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I have had issues with the Charismatic Movement since my Protty days. I was shocked to find that the movement has been endorsed by every pope since before the turn of the 20th century (IIRC, please correct me if I'm wrong). Far be it from me to argue with the likes of that list of pontiffs, but it doesn't mean I have to like the movement or participate in it.

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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:11 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
I have had issues with the Charismatic Movement since my Protty days. I was shocked to find that the movement has been endorsed by every pope since before the turn of the 20th century (IIRC, please correct me if I'm wrong). Far be it from me to argue with the likes of that list of pontiffs, but it doesn't mean I have to like the movement or participate in it.


I understand. And it certainly isn't required to be a part of a charismatic prayer group. In the early days of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal it was problematic, and in some places it may still be.

I personally knew a Carmelite priest who was led to be instructive to many in the renewal, and he was found to be with a lot of wisdom to share. Leaders and core members went to his monthly Days of Prayer and two conferences and learned a lot from him.

His name was Father Venard Poslusney, O. Carm. and he is at this site. You will see what I mean when you see the list of tapes he made of his conferences that are listed there.

http://advancedchristianity.com/

The name of the site "advancedchristianity" in no way is meaning that charismatics are advanced in their prayer life. Father Venard is only one of many who are on that site. A group invited him to their parish to give Days of Prayer many years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:01 pm 
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I appreciate the effort, Dorothy, but my experiences with the charismatic movement have been (and I'm being EXTREMELY charitable here) traumatic. Even reading endorsements triggers a small degree of panic within me; I know better (for the sake of my emotional health) than to click on any charismatic website, Catholic or otherwise. That's why I don't do retreats anymore - there's always some degree of charismatic worship involved, whether it be music, postures, or rituals, and I wind up getting triggered. That undoes everything the retreat is supposed to do. Others may, but I cannot. I've just learned to deal with it as best I can.

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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:21 pm 
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I was involved with the Charismatic movement for a while. No longer am. My big issue with them was being pressured to "speak in tongues". Even if you grant that the "tongues" evident in the movement are genuine, I see no indication from scripture or tradition that it's a gift meant for *every* believer.

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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:07 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
I appreciate the effort, Dorothy, but my experiences with the charismatic movement have been (and I'm being EXTREMELY charitable here) traumatic. Even reading endorsements triggers a small degree of panic within me; I know better (for the sake of my emotional health) than to click on any charismatic website, Catholic or otherwise. That's why I don't do retreats anymore - there's always some degree of charismatic worship involved, whether it be music, postures, or rituals, and I wind up getting triggered. That undoes everything the retreat is supposed to do. Others may, but I cannot. I've just learned to deal with it as best I can.


My "effort" was to let you see that this priest, Father Venard Poslusney, O. Carm. was very aware of how Catholics could drift away from what was not true spirituality. His conferences were mainly about the Carmelite saints and what the Carmelite Doctors of the Church taught. His efforts with those in Catholic Charismatic groups were to set them on the right track....to learn about deeper prayer, and not to get caught in "emotionalism". I certainly do agree with you that without correct guidance the groups could just go off on a tangent of "feeling good".

The retreats I go to are given by Carmelite priests and they do not promote the participants to go join a charismatic prayer group....it is not even mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:10 pm 
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Speed Racer wrote:
I was involved with the Charismatic movement for a while. No longer am. My big issue with them was being pressured to "speak in tongues". Even if you grant that the "tongues" evident in the movement are genuine, I see no indication from scripture or tradition that it's a gift meant for *every* believer.


I agree with you about what you stated.


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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:40 am 
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The video I linked to is from a movie about a Pentecostal minister.
There is also a scene in which we see some Catholics having a traditional procession (this time on a lake).

I was asking: what are these people in the video trying to achieve by what they do?
And how would it be different from when king David danced ( some say he danced in the temple)?
I have never seen any Catholic charismatic dancing like they do in the video. I am only saying that they sound too emotional. Maybe some kinda light pentecostalism (but with people who go to Mass). I have been to two different meetings with the Catholic charismatics and at least one person in each prayer group seem to have had an emotional issue.
My question: have you experienced this as well? And did you think it was a bit scarey (I did anyway)? It attracts people who need psychological help?
I guess we all have had emotuonal issue in our lives but I cant imagine a such a prayer group as a help.
I wonder how popes can like this.

Is Charistnatics they same as "guitar Mass" people?


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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:48 am 
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Ingenting,

The video you showed from the movie about a Pentecostal minister was outrageously unreal.

You mentioned about being to two different meetings with charismatics and at least one person in each group seemed to have an emotional issue. A group of Catholics at any kind of church meeting may also have present some people with emotional issues. Christian charity towards others can help.

I don't understand your last question. It is not helpful to portray Mass attendants as "guitar Mass people".


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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:30 am 
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I was only saying that the Charismatic Catholic I met used guitars and even at Mass.
I was just simply wondering if the Charismatic movement was often using guitars in their worships.

What is the role of the Charismatic movement in the Church? What was missing in the Church?
and how is Charismatic Christianity not too emotional?

Could it be that in Charismatoc prayer groups you are allowed to be more emotional than say in a rosary group? Thus I see the emotional part of people? And being allowed to show your emotional side is what peoole need?


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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:00 am 
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My grandmother and I have met a charismatic priest, Saint Padre Pio of Pietrelcina. We didn’t know about the Charismatic Renewal at that time. Guitars were not used either.

If you are interested, you can get a book “The Padre - Charismatic Priest, Testimonies” by Padre Marcelinno Iasenza Niro from Amazon or the like. I have the book in Italian.

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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:18 am 
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Ingenting,

The gifts we receive at Confirmation are for us personally: Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Fortitude, Knowledge, Piety and Fear of the Lord.

The charismatic gifts are for us to give to others: Prophecy, Words of Wisdom and Knowledge, Healing, Discernment of Spirits and Natural Discernment, Tongues and Interpretation (the least of the gifts).

There are many more charisms, such as have been given to the saints due to their deep prayer lives.

As mentioned by lbt above, St. Padre Pio had many of the charismatic gifts that were used to bring others closer to the Lord.

"There are different kinds of spiritual gifts but the same Spirit." 1 Corinthians 12:4


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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:02 pm 
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Speed Racer wrote:
I was involved with the Charismatic movement for a while. No longer am. My big issue with them was being pressured to "speak in tongues". Even if you grant that the "tongues" evident in the movement are genuine, I see no indication from scripture or tradition that it's a gift meant for *every* believer.


https://babylonbee.com/news/pentecostal ... ng-tongues ::):

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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:30 am 
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aprJkoOpnpA
This is a bit strange to me. I don't know if this is from a Mass or something but all I can say is: it looks like a pop/rock concert to me and not like a prayer group having a meeting or attending Mass.
This is why I find Charismatics something I don't like.

But I guess the questiom how much emotions should be expressed at Liturgies and private prayers.
Charismatics=people how like to show emotions.
Traditionals= peoplle showing emotions at other times.


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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:21 am 
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Ingenting,

I believe you should take all the concerns you have to prayer, and listen to the Lord. He can sort them out for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:48 am 
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In defense of Charismatics (note that I am not one):

Franciscan University Steubenville used to be a Catholic institution like many others, rapidly sliding away from anything distinctively Catholic and teaching all kinds of nonsense. When Fr. Scanlan arrived with orders to fix things, he couldn't fire all the tenured faculty. What he could do and did do was to recruit heavily students who wouldn't put up with that nonsense, and the best source he could find was charismatic communities. That's why FUS to this day has strong charismatic connections, though many of its alumni aren't connected with the movement.

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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:03 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
In defense of Charismatics (note that I am not one):

Franciscan University Steubenville used to be a Catholic institution like many others, rapidly sliding away from anything distinctively Catholic and teaching all kinds of nonsense. When Fr. Scanlan arrived with orders to fix things, he couldn't fire all the tenured faculty. What he could do and did do was to recruit heavily students who wouldn't put up with that nonsense, and the best source he could find was charismatic communities. That's why FUS to this day has strong charismatic connections, though many of its alumni aren't connected with the movement.


Yes. Keith Fournier shared about this in his book Evangelical Catholics -- a book that, in the mid-90s, was instrumental in helping me stay Catholic.

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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:57 am 
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I remember all of that about Franciscan University of Steubenville. Many of us parents were hoping our children could go there.

Father Scanlan was one of the four speakers at a huge FIRE rally when I lived on Long Island. FIRE stood for Faith, Intercession, Renewal, and Evangelism. All of the speakers were excellent, and the Mass that was said there was very well organized. (There was a very large amount of participants, and stairs and aisles involved with receiving the Eucharist.)


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 Post subject: Re: Charismatics?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:58 pm 
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ingenting wrote:
Ave Maria!
I just watched this scene from the movie Apostle: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PSdjQpaZcbw

Does anyone know what they actually did at the church? It is not proper behavior at a church in my opinion. It would probably be scarey if I had witnessed in real life.
I did attend meetings with a Catholic charismatic prayer group and I feel a bit uneasy there. It was actually "weird" to me. It wasn't like in this video but still a bit "Pentecostal" to me. I felt many of them had emotional problems. Another person who went there also found it a bit "weird".
It is like people make religion emotional.
In this movie they also showed some Catholics with a Priest. That felt like real religion. The Priest used holy water.
What can you wise people tell me about this? Why all this emotional religion and now even in the Church?
Some say King David danced but I don't think he went too far into the emotional.
This movie feels very American I must say. How do you Catholics think about thiis?

Many many good, Faithful Catholics have serious reservations about the whole thing. The point of prayer is our union with God, it isn't feelin' groovy.
God sometimes sends some beautiful blessings in the form of sensible consolations, but again, the point is God. Not us. Our prayer (and liturgy) must be vertical to God above, not horizontal to our own feelings and fellows.


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