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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:30 am 
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A lot of friends I have hate the good Bishop thanks to Michael “Toxic” Voris. I am not fully on board with everything he says, but he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic Faith in general.

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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:51 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e5u211qa9i0lsdt/Ignorance.md?dl=0

What is the source, please?
Has the word Agnoetism been used elsewhere?

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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:30 am 
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Pohle-Preuss, Christology. They didn't invent the term.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnoetae

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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:43 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Pohle-Preuss, Christology. They didn't invent the term.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnoetae


It was St. Gregory the Great who first condemned the heresy of the Agnoetes: http://newtheologicalmovement.blogspot. ... human.html

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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:35 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Pohle-Preuss, Christology. They didn't invent the term.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnoetae

Thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:09 pm 
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Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
A lot of friends I have hate the good Bishop thanks to Michael “Toxic” Voris. I am not fully on board with everything he says, but he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic Faith in general.

I have been watching Michael Voris's YouTube videos and I strongly disagree that he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic faith, I think he is doing the opposite, he is putting people off the Catholic faith, and leading people to a new religion, Catholicism without love. There's got to be more to love than berating people. If I thought Michael Voris's version of Catholicism was correct, I would have nothing to do with it. There are many Christians who live a life of Christian love, who inspire love, Michael Voris doesn't.


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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:07 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
A lot of friends I have hate the good Bishop thanks to Michael “Toxic” Voris. I am not fully on board with everything he says, but he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic Faith in general.

I have been watching Michael Voris's YouTube videos and I strongly disagree that he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic faith...
I'm pretty sure Servant of Guadalupe was saying that Bishop Barron is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic Faith in general, considering that he called Voris toxic. 'The good Bishop' referred to is Bishop Barron, AFAICT.

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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:25 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:38 pm 
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Closet Catholic wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
A lot of friends I have hate the good Bishop thanks to Michael “Toxic” Voris. I am not fully on board with everything he says, but he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic Faith in general.

I have been watching Michael Voris's YouTube videos and I strongly disagree that he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic faith...
I'm pretty sure Servant of Guadalupe was saying that Bishop Barron is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic Faith in general, considering that he called Voris toxic. 'The good Bishop' referred to is Bishop Barron, AFAICT.

I'm glad to hear I got that wrong! Thanks for pointing it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:37 pm 
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Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
but he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic Faith in general.


He utterly failed to communicate the necessity of Catholicism and the sacraments for salvation both to Shapiro and his audience that reaches tens of thousands. That's a pretty big fail.

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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:59 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
A lot of friends I have hate the good Bishop thanks to Michael “Toxic” Voris. I am not fully on board with everything he says, but he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic Faith in general.

I have been watching Michael Voris's YouTube videos and I strongly disagree that he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic faith, I think he is doing the opposite, he is putting people off the Catholic faith, and leading people to a new religion, Catholicism without love. There's got to be more to love than berating people. If I thought Michael Voris's version of Catholicism was correct, I would have nothing to do with it. There are many Christians who live a life of Christian love, who inspire love, Michael Voris doesn't.

it is dangerous speaking of love without precisely defining it.

some think love is just letting people do whatever they want

wht happens when you do that with your children? disaster in the teen years and byond

there needs to be more "berating" going on in homilies, etc.. Priests are giving people a license to sin, it seems because they rarely ever talk about Hell or the consequences of mortal sin, or even venial

Jesus said that FEW make it to Heaven, spoke of the narrow way, and he was talking about believers, not pagans or the nonchristians. in the Word it says that even the just are "barely saved"

frankly, I d on't know too many people who easily fit the description of "just" but that's another topic


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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:01 pm 
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Alexandros wrote:
Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
but he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic Faith in general.


He utterly failed to communicate the necessity of Catholicism and the sacraments for salvation both to Shapiro and his audience that reaches tens of thousands. That's a pretty big fail.

i agree.

Jesus says to those aspiring to enter Heaven

Depart from me you evil doers, I never knew you

I never knew you?

to me, that is speaking of hte Real Presence. No one knows Jesus if he or she is never in His Presence which is completely OTHER.. a Presence you c annot and will not find anywhere but in HIS Church. Even many Catholics don't know this or practice it


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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:33 pm 
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flyingaway wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
A lot of friends I have hate the good Bishop thanks to Michael “Toxic” Voris. I am not fully on board with everything he says, but he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic Faith in general.

I have been watching Michael Voris's YouTube videos and I strongly disagree that he is doing a great job evangelizing the Catholic faith, I think he is doing the opposite, he is putting people off the Catholic faith, and leading people to a new religion, Catholicism without love. There's got to be more to love than berating people. If I thought Michael Voris's version of Catholicism was correct, I would have nothing to do with it. There are many Christians who live a life of Christian love, who inspire love, Michael Voris doesn't.

it is dangerous speaking of love without precisely defining it.

some think love is just letting people do whatever they want

wht happens when you do that with your children? disaster in the teen years and byond

there needs to be more "berating" going on in homilies, etc.. Priests are giving people a license to sin, it seems because they rarely ever talk about Hell or the consequences of mortal sin, or even venial

Jesus said that FEW make it to Heaven, spoke of the narrow way, and he was talking about believers, not pagans or the nonchristians. in the Word it says that even the just are "barely saved"

frankly, I d on't know too many people who easily fit the description of "just" but that's another topic

Are you very confident that you are one of the "FEW"?

If not, you must be terrified. A theology that causes you to be terrified is not a good theology. We are not meant to live life terrified.


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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:38 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
A theology that causes you to be terrified is not a good theology. We are not meant to live life terrified.

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"

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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:01 pm 
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flyingaway wrote:
Priests are giving people a license to sin, it seems because they rarely ever talk about Hell or the consequences of mortal sin, or even venial


Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I would greatly appreciate it if you would avoid malign sweeping statements about priests.


Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
A large portion--I'm afraid I'd even have to say the majority--of the congregation doesn't care what the Church teaches on this or anything else. They bring their minds formed by secular influences to Mass, and as long as what the priest says doesn't conflict with it, they will listen. Otherwise they will put their polite listening face on and start thinking about where they're going for brunch after Mass.

So if I am exceptionally eloquent and persuasive, I might persuade one fence-sitter. Or I can spend the time trying to get people to make that next (or first) step in commitment to following Christ; if they do that, they will quickly enough encounter the Church's teaching on this and other things, and be formed by it.

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:14 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
A theology that causes you to be terrified is not a good theology. We are not meant to live life terrified.

"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"

Jack3, are you seriously trying to claim that that quote means we should live our lives feeling terrified?

If not, then what is your point in posting that quote?


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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:56 pm 
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Fear in the sense commended by Scripture is not incompatible with hope, love and joy. "Live our lives feeling terrified" suggests to me something different. I do not say that everyone should live with perpetual tremors and goosebumps. To avoid the danger of hell, fear spurs us on to lead a life of prayer, Sacraments, almsgiving, etc. Fear in the face of danger is only rational.

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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:24 pm 
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"Fear not, for I am with you." And, "If God is for us, who can be against us?" I, for one, have absolutely no fear of Hell. I remember when I did. But God's perfect love cast that out when I stopped looking to my own works but solely and only on those of Him who justifies the ungodly. Fear . . . That's a yoke I wouldn't want to be back under again.

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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:01 am 
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Timeamus, et amemus Deum vivum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1BTWCpEFRQ

1453 The contrition called "imperfect" (or "attrition") is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin's ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.

1041 The message of the Last Judgment calls men to conversion while God is still giving them "the acceptable time, . . . the day of salvation."629 It inspires a holy fear of God and commits them to the justice of the Kingdom of God. It proclaims the "blessed hope" of the Lord's return, when he will come "to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who have believed."630

We must also point out the steps by which we may ascend to this divine virtue. The mercy of God first goes before us and converts our hearts to Him. This was the object of the Prophet's prayer: Convert us, O Lord, to thee, and we shall be converted. Illumined by this light the soul next tends to God by faith. He that cometh to God, says the Apostle, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder of them that seek him. A salutary fear of God's judgments follows, and the soul, contemplating the punishments that await sin, is recalled from the paths of vice. To this (state of soul) seem to refer these words of Isaias: As a woman with child, when she draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain and crieth out in her pangs, so are we become. Then follows a hope of obtaining mercy from God, encouraged by which we resolve on improvement of life. Lastly, our hearts are inflamed by charity, whence springs that filial fear which good and dutiful children experience; and thus dreading only to offend the majesty of God in anything, we entirely abandon the ways of sin. - Roman Catechism

Besides, it was right that the just should be encouraged by the hope, the wicked appalled by the terror, of a future judgment; so that knowing the justice of God the former should not be disheartened, while the latter through fear and expectation of eternal punishment might be recalled from the paths of vice. Hence, speaking of the last day, our Lord and Saviour declares that a general judgment will one day take place, and He describes the signs of its approach, that seeing them, we may know that the end of the world is at hand. At His Ascension also, to console His Apostles, overwhelmed with grief at His departure, He sent Angels, who said to them: This Jesus who is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come, as you have seen him going into heaven - Ibid

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-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Bishop Barron on Ben Shapiro's show.... Salvation
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:31 am 
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I'm reminded that the Galatian Judaizers had more than a few "human traditions" they appealed to as they set aside the Scripture. You're a great guy, Jack3. I do hope that you don't personally live in fear of hell. I've done that. It's no way to live. I'd also strongly argue that Catholicism as such does not require you to live in fear of hell, as I know more than a few Catholics--very faithful Catholics (including priests)--with no such fear.

God doesn't threaten us who have believed in His Son with hell. Don't threaten yourself with it, my friend. Don't threaten others with it, either.

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Indeed, the Lord Jesus, when He prayed to the Father, "that all may be one. . . as we are one" (John 17:21-22) opened up vistas closed to human reason, for He implied a certain likeness between the union of the divine Persons, and the unity of God's sons in truth and charity. This likeness reveals that man, who is the only creature on earth which God willed for itself, cannot fully find himself except through a sincere gift of himself. ~ Pope Paul VI, Gaudium et Spes 24.3


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