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 Post subject: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Handmaids of the Lord
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I read somewhere that it doesn't break the meatless rule if you eat soup made with chicken broth, as long as there is no meat in the finished product.

Along that line: if I make a lentil or pea soup, using a chunk of ham during the cooking process, but remove the meat prior to serving, would I still be keeping both "letter and spirit" of the meatless requirement?

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:55 pm 
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from the usccb

Quote:
Q. I understand that all the Fridays of Lent are days of abstinence from meat, but I'm not sure what is classified as meat. Does meat include chicken and dairy products?

A. Abstinence laws consider that meat comes only from animals such as chickens, cows, sheep or pigs --- all of which live on land. Birds are also considered meat. Abstinence does not include meat juices and liquid foods made from meat. Thus, such foods as chicken broth, consomme, soups cooked or flavored with meat, meat gravies or sauces, as well as seasonings or condiments made from animal fat are technically not forbidden. However, moral theologians have traditionally taught that we should abstain from all animal-derived products (except foods such as gelatin, butter, cheese and eggs, which do not have any meat taste). Fish are a different category of animal. Salt and freshwater species of fish, amphibians, reptiles, (cold-blooded animals) and shellfish are permitted.

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:11 pm 
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MySweetLord wrote:
I read somewhere that it doesn't break the meatless rule if you eat soup made with chicken broth, as long as there is no meat in the finished product.

Along that line: if I make a lentil or pea soup, using a chunk of ham during the cooking process, but remove the meat prior to serving, would I still be keeping both "letter and spirit" of the meatless requirement?


My Bishop is in the "no broth made from meat" camp.

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:08 pm 
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I have removed the non-sequitur posts that were quickly devolving into mudslinging and are inappropriate for this thread, which I have also moved to Cath 101.

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:12 pm 
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kage_ar wrote:
MySweetLord wrote:
I read somewhere that it doesn't break the meatless rule if you eat soup made with chicken broth, as long as there is no meat in the finished product.

Along that line: if I make a lentil or pea soup, using a chunk of ham during the cooking process, but remove the meat prior to serving, would I still be keeping both "letter and spirit" of the meatless requirement?


My Bishop is in the "no broth made from meat" camp.


The CCC, as quoted by fs, seems to be pretty clear regarding the permissibility of meat-based broths. However, if one is uncomfortable with using meat- based broths, there's always vegetable broth, which can easily be found in any major supermarket. :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:48 pm 
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fs quoted not the ccc but the usccb

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:52 pm 
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kage_ar wrote:
MySweetLord wrote:
I read somewhere that it doesn't break the meatless rule if you eat soup made with chicken broth, as long as there is no meat in the finished product.

Along that line: if I make a lentil or pea soup, using a chunk of ham during the cooking process, but remove the meat prior to serving, would I still be keeping both "letter and spirit" of the meatless requirement?


My Bishop is in the "no broth made from meat" camp.


You have a very good bishop.


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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:14 pm 
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Light of the East wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
MySweetLord wrote:
I read somewhere that it doesn't break the meatless rule if you eat soup made with chicken broth, as long as there is no meat in the finished product.

Along that line: if I make a lentil or pea soup, using a chunk of ham during the cooking process, but remove the meat prior to serving, would I still be keeping both "letter and spirit" of the meatless requirement?


My Bishop is in the "no broth made from meat" camp.


You have a very good bishop.


Based on that alone? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Sabbath wrote:
Light of the East wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
MySweetLord wrote:
I read somewhere that it doesn't break the meatless rule if you eat soup made with chicken broth, as long as there is no meat in the finished product.

Along that line: if I make a lentil or pea soup, using a chunk of ham during the cooking process, but remove the meat prior to serving, would I still be keeping both "letter and spirit" of the meatless requirement?


My Bishop is in the "no broth made from meat" camp.


You have a very good bishop.


Based on that alone? :shock:


If he is that orthodox in one area, he is probably very good elsewhere.

In the Eastern faith, we become "label readers" during the Advent and Lenten fasts.


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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:22 pm 
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It is not un-orthodox (lower case "o") to say that meat broth is acceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Jack3 wrote:
fs quoted not the ccc but the usccb


observant young man :fyi: :wave

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:35 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
It is not un-orthodox (lower case "o") to say that meat broth is acceptable.


Well, Father, I am not talking about modern "orthodoxy." I am speaking of old-time orthodoxy when the West and East both did the same things. For instance, there was a time when the Western Church was every bit as strict with the Lenten Fast as the East - no meat, eggs, or dairy for all of Lent and Passion Week.

Now (and this is just my opinion) the West caters to the laziness of people and their lack of dedication to the need we have for ascesis in our lives to overcome sin and become like our Lord. I honestly believe that if the Holy Father and the bishops began to go back to many of the old orthodoxies of the united Church, you would see scads of Roman Catholic members simply quit attending or leave the Church altogether for the ultimate laziness - Protestantism, in which you are "once saved - always saved" and salvation is not a journey into eternal life, but a done deal.

Again, just my .02.


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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Light of the East wrote:

Well, Father, I am not talking about modern "orthodoxy." I am speaking of old-time orthodoxy when the West and East both did the same things. For instance, there was a time when the Western Church was every bit as strict with the Lenten Fast as the East - no meat, eggs, or dairy for all of Lent and Passion Week.

Now (and this is just my opinion) the West caters to the laziness of people and their lack of dedication to the need we have for ascesis in our lives to overcome sin and become like our Lord. I honestly believe that if the Holy Father and the bishops began to go back to many of the old orthodoxies of the united Church, you would see scads of Roman Catholic members simply quit attending or leave the Church altogether for the ultimate laziness - Protestantism, in which you are "once saved - always saved" and salvation is not a journey into eternal life, but a done deal.

Again, just my .02.

Many bad decisions were made in the last century. Yet there are individuals and groups thereof in the West who fast and abstain more than what is required of them by their canon law. I do not understand the distinction/classification you make about orthodoxy.

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:28 pm 
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Azymes, anyone?

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Azymes, anyone?


Not going to bite on that one, Father.

I was doing some research for my CCD class and found out that the practices of East and West were at one time equally strict. That's all I was saying.


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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:49 pm 
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I'm curious if you still know where you found that statement. I'm not denying that it's true; I'm just curious about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:55 pm 
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Hmm, not sure what there is about disciplines, that can be changed, have to do w/orthodoxy. Plus throwing that bit in about Protestants was a rather cheap shot, at them as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:30 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I'm curious if you still know where you found that statement. I'm not denying that it's true; I'm just curious about it.


As I said, Father, somewhere on the Internet as I was doing research to teach a class on Lent last year. Maybe I can dig it up again.

Yeah, that was a cheap shot, but while I have love for individual Protestant people and wish to see them converted, I don't have a lot of respect for the system of Protestantism, and especially those who, after studying the Early Fathers and seeing that Protestantism doesn't exist in the Early Church, stubbornly refuse to convert. My respect goes to people who can look objectively at FACTS and make a decision, however emotionally painful it may be, to follow where the facts lead them.

So, yeah, as far as I am concerned, the system of Protestantism has a rather large target on it for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Meatless Friday question... (being scrupulous?)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:55 am 
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I believe we have some Protestants here who have checked the facts yet have not seen a need to go swimming...

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