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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Adept
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Dorothy B. wrote:
Notnew wrote:
EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
... He left the building about 5 or 6 pages ago ...

You did see his update 3 pages ago - near the bottom of pg 4?
Just wondering ...


It is a grace-filled update!


Yep I did, thanks.
So many pages.
So little time.
:)

The salient point in my post, I think, Is that Xavier's thoughts and reactions are not out of the norm in the current environment created by CC leadership.

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:34 pm 
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Denise Dee wrote:
Alexandros, of course anyone can believe a Pope is wrong. Pope Benedict wrote a book and said "feel free to disagree". But there are also teachings Catholics are supposed to assent to. I'm very confused as to which teachings a Catholic can disagree with and which teachings a Catholic must accept.

I have a question for you: If a minority of priests, bishops and cardinals disagree with a teaching of the Pope, how is an ordinary average Catholic supposed to decide which is the right teaching?




Here is a simplified guide (anyone can correct me here if I mess this up):

Infallible teachings on faith and morals

1. statements that have language such as “declare, decree” and that are intended for the entire Church to believe.

Examples:

Pius XII wrote:
… by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own authority, we pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma: that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.


Pope Boniface VIII wrote:
Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.


2. Canons of Ecumenical councils:

Examples:

Trent wrote:
If any one shall say, that the sacraments of the New Law were not all instituted by Jesus Christ, our Lord; or, that they are more, or less than seven, to wit, Baptism, Confirmation, the Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Orders, and Matrimony; or even that any one of these seven is not truly and properly a sacrament;. let him be anathema.


Vatican I wrote:
If anyone says that the one, true God, our creator and lord, cannot be known with certainty from the things that have been made, by the natural light of human reason: let him be anathema.


3. The next level we have the constant teaching in the Church.

Example:

Paul VI wrote:
Nonetheless the Church, calling men back to the observance of the norms of the natural law, as interpreted by their constant doctrine, teaches that each and every marriage act (quilibet matrimonii usus) must remain open to the transmission of life.




4. The next level down is what is found in encyclicals, exhortations, catechisms, etc.; unless they use specific language to bind the Church found above.

At this level, assent should be given, unless one knows for sure it contradicts 1-3. If one is unsure, then give assent and interpret it through the traditional sense found in 1-3.


If someone takes a confusing teaching from the current Pope and utilizes the above, they should be able to find the truth. I don’t see how someone who is aware of something that is confusing does not have some ability to do this, or consult someone who can do this – at least on the major issues. And by “major,” I mean that items that could more or less turn us into heretics if we get them wrong (examples 1-3).

If the person still cannot find an answer, then the subject matter is usually something more obscure and not as weighty – i.e. it was not previously formally defined, and not so easily found in the constant teaching. If that is the case, then I would not worry about that particular issue and do you best (nothing is perfect).

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Citizen
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One of these days wrote:
Francis is not the pope he is the antipope, Benedict XVI is the one true Pope. His resignation was a partial abdication (his words). Canon Law does not accept his words...very involved, but we've had antipopes previously....

this is interesting

i never knew Pope B said that, that his was a partial abdication

I would love to believe that. Pope B never said anything that I can readily recall that.. disturbed..


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Handmaids of the Lord
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flyingaway wrote:
One of these days wrote:
Francis is not the pope he is the antipope, Benedict XVI is the one true Pope. His resignation was a partial abdication (his words). Canon Law does not accept his words...very involved, but we've had antipopes previously....

this is interesting

i never knew Pope B said that, that his was a partial abdication

I would love to believe that. Pope B never said anything that I can readily recall that.. disturbed..


Pope Benedict XVI did not say that.

A confused person said that about Francis and Benedict. I don't have time now to go back and find it in this thread. Please be aware that there are a lot of strange blogs that like to appear Catholic, and discernment is needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:21 pm 
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There is no such thing as a partial resignation (and 'resignation' is the correct term, not 'abdication'), either the pope resigns or he does not, there is no middle path.

You can't 'partially' quit being Pope any more than you can 'partially' quit any other job, either you're still working at that job (perhaps at reduced hours) or you're not. If you're not working there, you resigned, if you're still working there, even at reduced hours, then you have not resigned.

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:49 am 
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Intelligent links re op
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2016/12 ... tiber.html
https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2018/0 ... es_20.html

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"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:32 pm 
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Corporate Minion Moderator
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Saw this today and couldn't resist sharing:


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Citizen
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Dorothy B. wrote:
flyingaway wrote:
One of these days wrote:
Francis is not the pope he is the antipope, Benedict XVI is the one true Pope. His resignation was a partial abdication (his words). Canon Law does not accept his words...very involved, but we've had antipopes previously....

this is interesting

i never knew Pope B said that, that his was a partial abdication

I would love to believe that. Pope B never said anything that I can readily recall that.. disturbed..


Pope Benedict XVI did not say that.

A confused person said that about Francis and Benedict. I don't have time now to go back and find it in this thread. Please be aware that there are a lot of strange blogs that like to appear Catholic, and discernment is needed.

ok. you have not proven that Pope B didn't say that

but it is highly important that I realize all over again, that I can't beleive everything I read .. anywhere


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 Post subject: Re: Questioning Catholicism because of Pope Francis
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:56 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Quote:
ok. you have not proven that Pope B didn't say that

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

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Prayers,
Jack3
South Indian Eastern Catholic teenager.

"May our tongues proclaim Your truth. May Your Cross be a protection for us as we let our tongues be turned into new harps and sing hymns with fiery lips"

-From the introduction to Our Father, "On the feasts of the Lord and other important feasts", Syro Malabar rite


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