flyingaway wrote:
Alexandros wrote:
Doom wrote:
As far as it goes, I think his theology is more or less orthodox. I say 'more or less' because there are some things that he says every now and again that causes me to raise my eyebrows and wonder what he has been smoking but in general, he is theologically okay, more or less.
Trying to teach that Christ was ignorant of things and that He later learns of His messianic duty should garner attention beyond eyebrow raising. From what I have seen on this issue, it appears to be a serious error or even heresy.
Jesus DID have to learn things. In the Bible it talks about him learning and being perfected
he had a human side
I am talking about Christ being
ignorant of something, and then later satisfying that ignorance through human learning. Not learning in and of itself.
Christ knows everything because He is God, but he can "learn" things in a human way what He already knows through Divinity. This is because Christ simultaneously possessed the Beatific Vision
and subjected Himself to our human state.
Barron makes it clear that Christ has ignorance and then realized and learned of his Messianic duties:
Barron wrote:
As mother of the Lord, she is, once again, Israel, the entire series of events and system of ideas form which Jesus emerged and in terms of which he alone becomes intelligible. Hans Urs von Balthasar comments in the same vein that Mary effectively awakened the messianic consciousness of Jesus through her recounting of the story of Israel to her son. So in the Cana narrative, Mary will speak the pain and the hope of the chosen people, scattered and longing for union” (Robert Barrion, The Priority of Christ, p. 73).
And:
Barron wrote:
"Jesus has just been baptized. He has just learned his deepest identity and mission and now he confronts—as we all must—the great temptations. What does God want him to do? Who does God want him to be? How is he to live his life?"
https://web.archive.org/web/20150226180 ... he-damage/The former quote is very troubling. The latter states he “just learned” and now must go through trial where questions are asked, “What does God want him to do? Who does God want him to be? How is he to live his life?" – as if Christ didn’t know the answers.
So, Mary awakens the consciousness and the baptism in the Jordan makes it so that He “just learns” (i.e. at that movement) of a clearer picture of his duty. Off to the desert to try to figure more things out then.
Square it with these:
Pope St. Pius X:
The following has been condemned: “Christ did not always possess the consciousness of His Messianic dignity.”
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius10/p10lamen.htmPope Vigilius:
“If anyone says that the one Jesus Christ who is both true Son of God and true Son of man did not know the future or the day of the Last Judgment and that he could know only as much as the divinity, dwelling in him as in another, revealed to him, anathema sit.” (Pope Vigilius, Constitutum I of 14 May 553)
Pope Pius XII:
“The knowledge and love of our Divine Redeemer, of which we were the object from the first moment of His Incarnation, exceed all the human intellect can hope to grasp. For hardly was He conceived in the womb of the Mother of God, when He began to enjoy the beatific vision, and in that vision all the members of His Mystical Body were continually and unceasingly present to Him, and He embraced them with His redeeming love.” (Pius XII, Mystici Corporis 75)
[Always possessed the Beatific Vision and hence could always see everyone He loved and His redemption for them]
Or as St. Thomas says:
“What is in potentiality is reduced to act by what is in act; for that whereby things are heated must itself be hot. Now man is in potentiality to the knowledge of the blessed, which consists in the vision of God. […] Now men are brought to this end of beatitude by the humanity of Christ […] And hence it was necessary that the beatific knowledge, which consists in the vision of God, should belong to Christ pre-eminently, since the cause ought always to be more efficacious than the effect.” (ST III, q.9, a.2)