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 Post subject: Venial sins
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:49 am 
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I think there was a thread talking about this before but is it possible to live without venial sins? Is that the point of sanctification while still on earth- to come to the point of not committing venial sins?


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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:51 am 
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Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:10 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Yes.

If I recall Robert Bellarine denies (except for the Virgin Mary) denies that we can live without venial sin.

We're not Methodists after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:12 am 
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Perhaps Father can eloborate.

Maybe I misremember what the saint said.

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In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:39 am 
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ForeverFaithful wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Yes.

If I recall Robert Bellarine denies (except for the Virgin Mary) denies that we can live without venial sin.

We're not Methodists after all.
Council of Trent, Sess. VI

Quote:
On keeping the Commandments, and on the necessity and possibility thereof.

But no one, how much soever justified, ought to think himself exempt from the observance of the commandments; no one ought to make use of that rash saying, one prohibited by the Fathers under an anathema,-that the observance of the commandments of God is impossible for one that is justified. For God commands not impossibilities, but, by commanding, both admonishes thee to do what thou are able, and to pray for what thou art not able (to do), and aids thee that thou mayest be able; whose commandments are not heavy; whose yoke is sweet and whose burthen light. For, whoso are the sons of God, love Christ; but they who love him, keep his commandments, as Himself testifies; which, assuredly, with the divine help, they can do. For, although, during this mortal life, men, how holy and just soever, at times fall into at least light and daily sins, which are also called venial, not therefore do they cease to be just. For that cry of the just, Forgive us our trespasses, is both humble and true. And for this cause, the just themselves ought to feel themselves the more obligated to walk in the way of justice, in that, being already freed from sins, but made servants of God, they are able, living soberly, justly, and godly, to proceed onwards through Jesus Christ, by whom they have had access unto this grace.

For God forsakes not those who have been once justified by His grace, unless he be first forsaken by them. Wherefore, no one ought to flatter himself up with faith alone, fancying that by faith alone he is made an heir, and will obtain the inheritance, even though he suffer not with Christ, that so he may be also glorified with him. For even Christ Himself, as the Apostle saith, Whereas he was the son of God, learned obedience by the things which he suffered, and being consummated, he became, to all who obey him, the cause of eternal salvation. For which cause the same Apostle admonishes the justified, saying; Know you not that they that run in the race, all run indeed, but one receiveth the prize? So run that you may obtain. I therefore so run, not as at an uncertainty: I so fight, not as one beating the air, but I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection; lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a cast-away. So also the prince of the apostles, Peter; Labour the more that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing those things, you shall not sin at any time. From which it is plain, that those are opposed to the orthodox doctrine of religion, who assert that the just man sins, venially at least, in every good work; or, which is yet more insupportable, that he merits eternal punishments; as also those who state, that the just sin in all their works, if, in those works, they, together with this aim principally that God may be gloried, have in view also the eternal reward, in order to excite their sloth, and to encourage themselves to run in the course: whereas it is written, I have inclined my heart to do all thy justifications for the reward: and, concerning Moses, the Apostle saith, that he looked unto the reward.


Canon XVIII
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If any one saith, that the commandments of God are, even for one that is justified and constituted in grace, impossible to keep; let him be anathema.

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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:06 am 
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Even in the most difficult situations man must respect the norm of morality so that he can be obedient to God's holy commandment and consistent with his own dignity as a person. Certainly, maintaining a harmony between freedom and truth occasionally demands uncommon sacrifices, and must be won at a high price: it can even involve martyrdom. But, as universal and daily experience demonstrates, man is tempted to break that harmony: "I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate... I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want" (Rom 7:15, 19).

What is the ultimate source of this inner division of man? His history of sin begins when he no longer acknowledges the Lord as his Creator and himself wishes to be the one who determines, with complete independence, what is good and what is evil. "You will be like God, knowing good and evil" (Gen 3:5): this was the first temptation, and it is echoed in all the other temptations to which man is more easily inclined to yield as a result of the original Fall.

But temptations can be overcome, sins can be avoided, because together with the commandments the Lord gives us the possibility of keeping them: "His eyes are on those who fear him, and he knows every deed of man. He has not commanded any one to be ungodly, and he has not given any one permission to sin" (Sir 15:19-20). Keeping God's law in particular situations can be difficult, extremely difficult, but it is never impossible. This is the constant teaching of the Church's tradition, and was expressed by the Council of Trent: "But no one, however much justified, ought to consider himself exempt from the observance of the commandments, nor should he employ that rash statement, forbidden by the Fathers under anathema, that the commandments of God are impossible of observance by one who is justified. For God does not command the impossible, but in commanding he admonishes you to do what you can and to pray for what you cannot, and he gives his aid to enable you. His commandments are not burdensome (cf. 1 Jn 5:3); his yoke is easy and his burden light (cf. Mt 11:30)".162

103. Man always has before him the spiritual horizon of hope, thanks to the help of divine grace and with the cooperation of human freedom.

It is in the saving Cross of Jesus, in the gift of the Holy Spirit, in the Sacraments which flow forth from the pierced side of the Redeemer (cf. Jn 19:34), that believers find the grace and the strength always to keep God's holy law, even amid the gravest of hardships. As Saint Andrew of Crete observes, the law itself "was enlivened by grace and made to serve it in a harmonious and fruitful combination. Each element preserved its characteristics without change or confusion. In a divine manner, he turned what could be burdensome and tyrannical into what is easy to bear and a source of freedom".163

Only in the mystery of Christ's Redemption do we discover the "concrete" possibilities of man. "It would be a very serious error to conclude... that the Church's teaching is essentially only an "ideal" which must then be adapted, proportioned, graduated to the so-called concrete possibilities of man, according to a "balancing of the goods in question". But what are the "concrete possibilities of man" ? And of which man are we speaking? Of man dominated by lust or of man redeemed by Christ? This is what is at stake: the reality of Christ's redemption. Christ has redeemed us! This means that he has given us the possibility of realizing the entire truth of our being; he has set our freedom free from the domination of concupiscence. And if redeemed man still sins, this is not due to an imperfection of Christ's redemptive act, but to man's will not to avail himself of the grace which flows from that act. God's command is of course proportioned to man's capabilities; but to the capabilities of the man to whom the Holy Spirit has been given; of the man who, though he has fallen into sin, can always obtain pardon and enjoy the presence of the Holy Spirit".

- St John Paul II, Veritatis Splendor

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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Since the only work I have read by Bellarmine is De Laicis, and I can not find the passage I recall in it. I must conclude I misremembered.

However, the council of Trent is recognizing the just will still commit venial sins. Maybe I misunderstand the OP, no particular commandment of God is impossible, and in no circumstance is one ever without sufficient grace to resist sin, but it's a moral impossibility that anyone can live their life without venial sin, no?

(excluding from consideration anyone named in the New Testament)

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In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


Last edited by ForeverFaithful on Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Quote:
but it's a moral impossibility that anyone can live their life without venial sin, no?
From the age of reason on, probably not. But that's not the same thing as saying that a saint can't reach that point. If my memory serves, one characteristic of the unitive way is that those in it, while not incapable of falling away, generally do not sin.

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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Quote:
but it's a moral impossibility that anyone can live their life without venial sin, no?
From the age of reason on, probably not. But that's not the same thing as saying that a saint can't reach that point. If my memory serves, one characteristic of the unitive way is that those in it, while not incapable of falling away, generally do not sin.


I am not sure of this unitive way of which you speak.

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In Te speravi, Domine: dixi: Tu es Deus meus, in manibus Tuis tempora mea.
Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am weak: heal me, O Lord, for my bones are troubled.
All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
Tiber swim team '13


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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:11 pm 
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http://blog.adw.org/2013/11/on-the-purg ... a-cartoon/

Also this and the following posts in the series: https://www.spiritualdirection.com/2013 ... t-ii-of-iv

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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:38 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Quote:
but it's a moral impossibility that anyone can live their life without venial sin, no?
From the age of reason on, probably not. But that's not the same thing as saying that a saint can't reach that point. If my memory serves, one characteristic of the unitive way is that those in it, while not incapable of falling away, generally do not sin.


My far less theologically deep thoughts... Christ said "be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect". He would not have placed that goal for us if it were utterly unattainable in this lifetime.

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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:05 pm 
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I am just starting to be aware of my mountain of venial sins. I guess I am kind of new at being a serious Christian but I just feel like "I cant change this stuff"


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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:23 am 
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kpl2014 wrote:
I am just starting to be aware of my mountain of venial sins. I guess I am kind of new at being a serious Christian but I just feel like "I cant change this stuff"


We grow in grace, the Sacraments strengthen us, prayer and Scripture strengthen us. Being aware of these venial sins shows growth. Elizabeth Scalia's book "Little Sins Mean A Lot" is one you might want to pick up

https://www.amazon.com/Little-Sins-Mean ... B01DUZGHEE

If you want to run a marathon, you don't just wake up one day and head to Boston. You train, you stretch, you start with walking around the block.

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 Post subject: Re: Venial sins
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Thank you!


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