Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 3   [ 41 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:26 am 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
Peregrinator wrote:
GKC wrote:
Closet Catholic wrote:
I loved 'Till We Have Faces.'


Lewis did too.


el oh el



It replaced Perelandra as his favorite fiction book, with his name on it.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:33 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:13 am
Posts: 1436
Location: Wisconsin
Religion: Roman Catholic
GKC wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
GKC wrote:
Closet Catholic wrote:
I loved 'Till We Have Faces.'


Lewis did too.


el oh el



It replaced Perelandra as his favorite fiction book, with his name on it.



I have to be missing something...
is this a joke or was Lewis vain and holding his own work as too highly regarded?

_________________
For who we are and what we'll be/ I'll sing your praise eternally/ the miles we've shared I'd trade but few/ they're the ones that kept me away from you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:05 pm 
Offline
Prodigal Son of Thunder
Prodigal Son of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:54 am
Posts: 39759
Location: Ithilien
Religion: Dunedain Catholic
Church Affiliations: AWC, CSB, UIGSE-FSE (FNE)
He just had bad taste in his own work.

_________________
Formerly Bagheera

"Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the King." (1 Peter 2:17)
Federation of North-American Explorers - North Star Group - How You Can Help


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:14 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 78362
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
I'm missing something. What's wrong with having favorites among your own works?

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:15 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
Peregrinator wrote:
He just had bad taste in his own work.


I'll take his opinion. Still haven't reread FACES, though.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:17 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I'm missing something. What's wrong with having favorites among your own works?



Nothing.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:18 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
p.falk wrote:
GKC wrote:
Peregrinator wrote:
GKC wrote:
Closet Catholic wrote:
I loved 'Till We Have Faces.'


Lewis did too.


el oh el



It replaced Perelandra as his favorite fiction book, with his name on it.



I have to be missing something...
is this a joke or was Lewis vain and holding his own work as too highly regarded?


No. He was an author who had opinions as to his best work. Sounds fair.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:40 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 75653
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
p.falk wrote:

I have to be missing something...
is this a joke or was Lewis vain and holding his own work as too highly regarded?


He was asked in an interview, the last one he gave before he died, which of his books he regarded as his favorite, and he said 'Till We Have Faces', he didn't say it was his best, he said it was his favorite.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:23 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
Doom wrote:
p.falk wrote:

I have to be missing something...
is this a joke or was Lewis vain and holding his own work as too highly regarded?


He was asked in an interview, the last one he gave before he died, which of his books he regarded as his favorite, and he said 'Till We Have Faces', he didn't say it was his best, he said it was his favorite.



Well...

In a 1957 letter, he called it "much my best book". In 1959, he referred to it as "the favorite of all my books", and in 1960, "I consider it far and away the best I have written".

I bet I could find more. So, it was his favorite and his best, in his opinion.

He also referred to it as a complete flop. The worst flop I've ever had. My one big failure both with the critics and with the public. My best book but not many people agree with me.

One can find some critics who did.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:17 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 75653
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
The interview I am talking about he said his best work was 'Perelandra' and his favorite work was 'Till We Have Faces'. That interview was in August 1963.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:09 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
Doom wrote:
The interview I am talking about he said his best work was 'Perelandra' and his favorite work was 'Till We Have Faces'. That interview was in August 1963.


I was wondering which interview that was. The usual last interview I know of was with a guy named Wirt, and it was in May 63, doesn't touch on FACES. Gimme a reference for the August interview. I'm tired of looking stuff up. Been doing it all week for a history lesson I'm conducting in Another Place, on Another Subject. But in July-August 1963, Lewis was barely up to receiving close friends, latterly drifting in and out of focus. Who was the interviewer?

But I agree that he said it was his best. And his favorite, as noted. Also his most mature. I found two more such references, and maybe 6 more complaints about the critics. I knew I could.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:23 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 78362
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
You don't have a r--- l---, do you? :shock:

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:29 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
You don't have a r--- l---, do you? :shock:



I got these books.

Or

These books got me.

I just thumbed through 4-5 Lewis bios. No sort of interview in Aug seen. And the visit from Tolkien and Fr. John seems to have been in Oct. No interviewers, they.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:29 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 75653
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
GKC wrote:
I was wondering which interview that was. The usual last interview I know of was a guy named Wirt, and it was in May 63, doesn't touch on FACES. Gimme a reference for the August interview. I'm tired of looking stuff up. Been doing it all week for a history lesson I'm conducting in Another Place, on Another Subject. But in July-August 1963, Lewis was barely up to receiving close friends, latterly drifting in and out of focus. Who was the interviewer?
.


I remember the exact wording of the questions and answers...

Q: Of all the books you have written, which do you think is your best? I think it is 'Perelandra'.

A: I agree

Q: But my favorite book of yours is 'Till We Have Faces'

A: I agree

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:40 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
I was wondering which interview that was. The usual last interview I know of was a guy named Wirt, and it was in May 63, doesn't touch on FACES. Gimme a reference for the August interview. I'm tired of looking stuff up. Been doing it all week for a history lesson I'm conducting in Another Place, on Another Subject. But in July-August 1963, Lewis was barely up to receiving close friends, latterly drifting in and out of focus. Who was the interviewer?
.


I remember the exact wording of the questions and answers...

Q: Of all the books you have written, which do you think is your best? I think it is 'Perelandra'.

A: I agree

Q: But my favorite book of yours is 'Till We Have Faces'

A: I agree



And...

nothing else?

Could it have been Hooper reporting something said in a conversation? Hooper was there in July and August. Lewis was out of hospital and in the Kilns by early August. Not reliably coherent. Hooper left in late Sep.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:43 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
I need my copy of George Sayer's JACK. I bet.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:33 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
Maybe. Checked Griffin's bio. No visitors in August mentioned. Nothing of use.

But Sayer was a very close friend and was in and out of the Kilns during the last few months of Lewis' life. No mention of an August interview, in Jack, either.

In the body of the Sayer's bio, discussing Perelandra, Sayer says it was the space-travel novel he (Lewis) liked best, and of all his books, the one most essentially his own. I count that a vote for favorite.

Anent Faces, he says "Jack sometimes said that he thought Till We Have Faces was his best novel, and sometimes he thought Perelandra was. Sayer is also the most detailed about the part Joy played in the making of Faces.

Considering all this, and all the letters I've found, I conclude:

Lewis thought of Perelandra as his favorite book, without judging its quality, until he wrote Faces. After which Perelandra was displaced by it, and came in 2nd. Mostly. He considered Faces his best work, and most mature, and it was redolent of Joy. But he also recalled his old flame.

I misdoubt an interview in Aug 1963. At this point in time.

I am looking into getting a r... l... from Amazon.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Last edited by GKC on Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:32 am 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:30 pm
Posts: 75653
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
I was wondering which interview that was. The usual last interview I know of was a guy named Wirt, and it was in May 63, doesn't touch on FACES. Gimme a reference for the August interview. I'm tired of looking stuff up. Been doing it all week for a history lesson I'm conducting in Another Place, on Another Subject. But in July-August 1963, Lewis was barely up to receiving close friends, latterly drifting in and out of focus. Who was the interviewer?
.


I remember the exact wording of the questions and answers...

Q: Of all the books you have written, which do you think is your best? I think it is 'Perelandra'.

A: I agree

Q: But my favorite book of yours is 'Till We Have Faces'

A: I agree



And...

nothing else?

Could it have been Hooper reporting something said in a conversation? Hooper was there in July and August. Lewis was out of hospital and in the Kilns by early August. Not reliably coherent. Hooper left in late Sep.


No, that isn't it. He went on saying that there is a difference between 'the best' and 'your favorite', and that 'Till We Have Faces' is his favorite because it was the one he most enjoyed writing and that of all his books, his least favorite is 'The Screwtape Letters' because he found it very tedious to write and he found it difficult to constantly think backwards, however, saying that is it his least favorite doesn't mean that he thinks it is bad, and he knows that many people have found it interesting or helpful, but he didn't enjoy writing it, and that is why he never wrote a sequel even though some were clamoring for one.

It was an extended interview about 5 pages long, and it was included in one of those collected books of essays, either 'Fern seed and Elephants' or 'God In the Dock'.

_________________
Excelsior!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:11 am 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
I was wondering which interview that was. The usual last interview I know of was a guy named Wirt, and it was in May 63, doesn't touch on FACES. Gimme a reference for the August interview. I'm tired of looking stuff up. Been doing it all week for a history lesson I'm conducting in Another Place, on Another Subject. But in July-August 1963, Lewis was barely up to receiving close friends, latterly drifting in and out of focus. Who was the interviewer?
.


I remember the exact wording of the questions and answers...

Q: Of all the books you have written, which do you think is your best? I think it is 'Perelandra'.

A: I agree

Q: But my favorite book of yours is 'Till We Have Faces'

A: I agree



And...

nothing else?

Could it have been Hooper reporting something said in a conversation? Hooper was there in July and August. Lewis was out of hospital and in the Kilns by early August. Not reliably coherent. Hooper left in late Sep.


No, that isn't it. He went on saying that there is a difference between 'the best' and 'your favorite', and that 'Till We Have Faces' is his favorite because it was the one he most enjoyed writing and that of all his books, his least favorite is 'The Screwtape Letters' because he found it very tedious to write and he found it difficult to constantly think backwards, however, saying that is it his least favorite doesn't mean that he thinks it is bad, and he knows that many people have found it interesting or helpful, but he didn't enjoy writing it, and that is why he never wrote a sequel even though some were clamoring for one.

It was an extended interview about 5 pages long, and it was included in one of those collected books of essays, either 'Fern seed and Elephants' or 'God In the Dock'.



Well, that easy enough to check, if either are the source.

For us folks lacking a r... l..., that is.

The Screwtape comment is certainly familiar, it's often reprinted. However, the no sequel comment overlooks "Screwtape Proposes a Toast", technically.

Edited: and not really, as to the last. Lewis' comments on writing Screwtape were from an article printed in THE GUARDIAN, in 1961, and often now included in reprints of Screwtape Letters and Screwtape Proposes a Toast, as it was originally intended to be used. It does mention his dislike of writing Letters, and states why he overcame his resolve not to revisit the concept, when THE SATURDAY EVENING POST tempted him, in 1959. The basic concept was also expressed in the May 1963 "last interview" with Wirt. No mention of favorite/best books, or Faces/Perelandra in that.

I also have a feeling I'm overlooking something.

Checking Fernseeds is not as easy as I thought. Cant find it. Will continue. After r... l... intervention.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Phantastes - George MacDonald
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:11 pm 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 10:22 pm
Posts: 18785
Conclusion. Supported by:

My Fern-Seed and Elephants, which is either the 1975 or the 1977 Fontana pb edition, is still missing. Which means I need to replace it. But not to despair. All the sermons/essays (not a propitious collection to look for an interview in) not reprinted in Weight of Glory (3rd ed.), which I have examined, appeared in The World's Last Night (I don't own it). Which was published in 1960. Save only the essay "Historicism). Which appears in [i]Christian Reflections. I checked it. Nope, as you would guess Either way, they all predate 1960, and fail, thus.

Same with God In The Dock: Essays on Theology and Ethics Again, not a likely hunting ground. And the collection has (as far as I can tell), only a couple of items post 1962. One of which is the aforementioned Wirts interview of May, 1963. Which (as related) mentions his aversion to the writing of Screwtape, and nothing on Perelandra or Faces .

And it's not in Of Other Worlds. Nothing in Present Concerns is later than 1957. Selected Literary Essays and Studies in Medieval & Renaissance Literature eliminate themselves. I don't own They Asked For A Paper, but only 2 selections are not covered elsewhere, and the book was printed in 1962.

When Hooper began his mix, stir and reprint activities for Lewis' shorter works, I didn't always try to collect a complete set of titles, since I saw I usually wasn't seeing much in new materials. So it's possible I missed it. If you find it again, I'd like to know. For now I conclude that no interview occurred after May 1963, and that by Wirt. Lewis said what I've found him saying, referring to Faces and Perelandra as sometime best, sometimes favorite.

Further, I know not.

Now to go read something. An article on OCD, maybe.

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 3   [ 41 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


Jump to: