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 Post subject: Re: "Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:19 pm 
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Some Poor Bibliophile
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As I first thought when I first saw it; seems like I should pick it up.

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 Post subject: Re: "Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:45 pm 
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GKC wrote:
As I first thought when I first saw it; seems like I should pick it up.


The book doesn't really say much that hasn't been known for decades, it just goes into a lot more detail than any other source. It's been known for a while that Pius had a connection to the German Catholic resistance and that he was aware of and seemed to approve of their plans to assassinate Hitler, but what wasn't known was just how extensive the ties were, how much the Pope knew of their activities, and how closely coordinated they were. The plans to assassinate Hitler all relied very closely on the Vatican willingness to grant official recognition to and establish diplomatic ties with, any anti-Nazi regime that might arise out of a successful attempt to kill Hitler.

Step one was Kill Hitler
Step two was: lead a coup to topple the Nazi regime and establish a new regime
Step three was to get the Pope to officially recognize the new regime and establish full diplomatic relations, thereby encouraging the American government to follow suit
Step four was to use the new legitimacy resulting from step three to sue the Allies for peace, ask for terms of German surrender and end the war

The entire plan could never have worked without step three, getting Papal approval was considered more important than getting American approval, because it was assumed that the Pope could persuade Roosevelt to agree to accept the new government if he did it first.

According to the book, Pius knew far more about efforts to accomplish about steps one and two than anyone previously guessed. He knew, for example, of Stauffenberg's plot, well before the attempt was made on Hitler's life.

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 Post subject: Re: "Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler"
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:19 pm 
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Some Poor Bibliophile
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Doom wrote:
GKC wrote:
As I first thought when I first saw it; seems like I should pick it up.


The book doesn't really say much that hasn't been known for decades, it just goes into a lot more detail than any other source. It's been known for a while that Pius had a connection to the German Catholic resistance and that he was aware of and seemed to approve of their plans to assassinate Hitler, but what wasn't known was just how extensive the ties were, how much the Pope knew of their activities, and how closely coordinated they were. The plans to assassinate Hitler all relied very closely on the Vatican willingness to grant official recognition to and establish diplomatic ties with, any anti-Nazi regime that might arise out of a successful attempt to kill Hitler.

Step one was Kill Hitler
Step two was: lead a coup to topple the Nazi regime and establish a new regime
Step three was to get the Pope to officially recognize the new regime and establish full diplomatic relations, thereby encouraging the American government to follow suit
Step four was to use the new legitimacy resulting from step three to sue the Allies for peace, ask for terms of German surrender and end the war

The entire plan could never have worked without step three, getting Papal approval was considered more important than getting American approval, because it was assumed that the Pope could persuade Roosevelt to agree to accept the new government if he did it first.

According to the book, Pius knew far more about efforts to accomplish about steps one and two than anyone previously guessed. He knew, for example, of Stauffenberg's plot, well before the attempt was made on Hitler's life.


Sounds better and better. Anything that expands knowledge and is supportable is good to get.

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Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
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 Post subject: Re: "Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler"
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:21 pm 
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St. Irenaeus of Lyons wrote:
A search on "spies" of all the forums in this message board yielded nothing, so I suppose nobody has mentioned this book by Mark Riesling: Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler

Mercator.net offers this review: Church of Spies: The Pope’s secret war against Hitler.


Hah! I caught a few minutes of something about this book on tv (at the gym of all places - I don't have one at home) the other day, and hauled up the original post. And I discovered I gave the author's name wrongly. The author is Mark Riebling, and not Mark Riesling as I wrote originally. I hardly ever drink alcohol and won't fob this off as having to do with a fondness for riesling wine, but maybe somehow that was on my mind. Anyway, the book has gotten many good reviews.

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 Post subject: Re: "Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler"
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Some Poor Bibliophile
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St. Irenaeus of Lyons wrote:
St. Irenaeus of Lyons wrote:
A search on "spies" of all the forums in this message board yielded nothing, so I suppose nobody has mentioned this book by Mark Riesling: Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler

Mercator.net offers this review: Church of Spies: The Pope’s secret war against Hitler.


Hah! I caught a few minutes of something about this book on tv (at the gym of all places - I don't have one at home) the other day, and hauled up the original post. And I discovered I gave the author's name wrongly. The author is Mark Riebling, and not Mark Riesling as I wrote originally. I hardly ever drink alcohol and won't fob this off as having to do with a fondness for riesling wine, but maybe somehow that was on my mind. Anyway, the book has gotten many good reviews.



And I bought it, about 6+ months ago. To join the 5-6 books on the general topic I have. But I have not begun to read it yet.

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"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


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 Post subject: Re: "Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:53 pm 
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GKC wrote:
St. Irenaeus of Lyons wrote:
St. Irenaeus of Lyons wrote:
A search on "spies" of all the forums in this message board yielded nothing, so I suppose nobody has mentioned this book by Mark Riesling: Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler

Mercator.net offers this review: Church of Spies: The Pope’s secret war against Hitler.


Hah! I caught a few minutes of something about this book on tv (at the gym of all places - I don't have one at home) the other day, and hauled up the original post. And I discovered I gave the author's name wrongly. The author is Mark Riebling, and not Mark Riesling as I wrote originally. I hardly ever drink alcohol and won't fob this off as having to do with a fondness for riesling wine, but maybe somehow that was on my mind. Anyway, the book has gotten many good reviews.



And I bought it, about 6+ months ago. To join the 5-6 books on the general topic I have. But I have not begun to read it yet.


A local parish is featuring this book in its book club ministry starting next month. They meet on weekday mornings, though, so there's no chance of my attending.

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 Post subject: Re: "Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:05 pm 
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Some Poor Bibliophile
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
GKC wrote:
St. Irenaeus of Lyons wrote:
St. Irenaeus of Lyons wrote:
A search on "spies" of all the forums in this message board yielded nothing, so I suppose nobody has mentioned this book by Mark Riesling: Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler

Mercator.net offers this review: Church of Spies: The Pope’s secret war against Hitler.


Hah! I caught a few minutes of something about this book on tv (at the gym of all places - I don't have one at home) the other day, and hauled up the original post. And I discovered I gave the author's name wrongly. The author is Mark Riebling, and not Mark Riesling as I wrote originally. I hardly ever drink alcohol and won't fob this off as having to do with a fondness for riesling wine, but maybe somehow that was on my mind. Anyway, the book has gotten many good reviews.



And I bought it, about 6+ months ago. To join the 5-6 books on the general topic I have. But I have not begun to read it yet.


A local parish is featuring this book in its book club ministry starting next month. They meet on weekday mornings, though, so there's no chance of my attending.


Me either. I'll have to read the thing.

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"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


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 Post subject: Re: "Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler"
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:26 am 
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Doom wrote:
Well, no one asked what anyone thought of the book, only if anyone had read it. :)


I love you for that comment

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