pax wrote:
[1] Being justified therefore by faith, let us have peace with God, through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Is Paul contradicting himself? You seem to be saying that this verse makes the other verses meaningless. Perhaps you could supply a meaning for those verses cited about Baptism which tie these two verses together? You see, I hold both to be true, and I see no contradiction between them. But you obviously do. The reason? You see salvation as an event, whereas I see salvation as a process.
[8] For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; [9] Not of works, that no man may glory. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them.
JUst finish the sentence!
Don't put the cart before the horse.
Verse 10 does not invalidate the point that 8-9 state we're saved by grace through faith. I certainly don't disagree that we need to do good works to prove our salvation. But works don't save us. They are a result of our saving faith.
Quote:
[11] For the scripture saith: Whosoever believeth in him, shall not be confounded. [12] For there is no distinction of the Jew and the Greek: for the same is Lord over all, rich unto all that call upon him. [13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved. [14] How then shall they call on him, in whom they have not believed? Or how shall they believe him, of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear, without a preacher? [15] And how shall they preach unless they be sent, as it is written: How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, of them that bring glad tidings of good things!
[15] Unless they be sent: Here is an evident proof against all new teachers, who have all usurped to themselves the ministry without any lawful mission, derived by succession from the apostles, to whom Christ said, John 20. 21, As my Father hath sent me, I also send you.
[1] Now when these things were done, the word of the Lord came to Abram by a vision, saying: Fear not, Abram, I am thy protector, and thy reward exceeding great. [2] And Abram said: Lord God, what wilt thou give me? I shall go without children: and the son of the steward of my house is this Damascus Eliezer. [3] And Abram added: But to me thou hast not given seed: and lo my servant, born in my house, shall be my heir. [4] And immediately the word of the Lord came to him, saying: He shall not be thy heir: but he that shall come out of thy bowels, him shalt thou have for thy heir. [5] And he brought him forth abroad, and said to him: Look up to heaven and number the stars, if thou canst. And he said to him: So shall thy seed be.
[6] Abram believed God, and it was reputed to him unto justice. [7] And he said to him: I am the Lord who brought thee out from Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land, and that thou mightest possess it. [8] But he said: Lord God, whereby may I know that I shall possess it? [9] And the Lord answered, and said: Take me a cow of three years old, and a she goat of three years, and a ram of three years, a turtle also, and a pigeon. [10] And he took all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid the two pieces of each one against the other; but the birds he divided not.
[11] And the fowls came down upon the carcasses, and Abram drove them away. [12] And when the sun was setting, a deep sleep fell upon Abram, and a great and darksome horror seized upon him. [13] And it was said unto him: Know thou beforehand that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land not their own, and they shall bring them under bondage, and afflict them four hundred years. [14] But I will judge the nation which they shall serve, and after this they shall come out with great substance. [15] And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace, and be buried in a good old age.
[16] But in the fourth generation they shall return hither: for as yet the iniquities of the Amorrhites are not at the full until this present time. [17] And when the sun was set, there arose a dark mist, and there appeared a smoking furnace and a lamp of fire passing between those divisions. [18] That day God made a covenant with Abram,
See? A process. Not an event.
Again...the cart before the horse....
He was considered righteous...then the covenant came. Not the other way around.