Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
If this did indeed occur within the Detroit Archdiocese then I would suggest that they should concentrate on internal liturgical matters instead of the cyber world...
1. This is more than a liturgical abuse
2. Why must you trash an orthodox bishop like Vigneron? You know what, this crap happens in many dioceses (not in many parishes...not by any means) without the bishop really ever knowing or knowing enough to do anything
I went to a Mass in Austria that had women come up to concelebrate. But the very day before the Mass not only lacked any and all abuses, there was chant and people genuflecting to be blessed and a bunch of traditional elements. Tell me that the bishop could ever prove what was happening even if he knew..
3. I suggest we focus on the OP, and not armchairing the bishop, to whom we should look as to Christ in obedience. I think this protestant always second guessing bishops leads to nothing but ruin
i saw it differently.. perhaps to simplified.. the way i saw it, between going after voris and this situation, i think this situation is a bit more serious than voris.. perhaps the bishop has more info on voris than we do, but then again, it seems we (for example, ME, all the way in Brazil) have more info about what is going on in a church in his diocese..
Pray tell, what exactly did the bishop do to Voris?
The chancery simply answered a question asked of it, and all you armchair bishops go nutty. Fact, one needs permission before presenting matters of faith and morals over broadcast from his own bishop or the bishop of the place from whence the broadcast is made. Fast, canon law requires approbation beforehand
to claim the name Catholic. They never even tried to get that permission in the first place. So what, the only acceptable answer according to some people was apparently for the archdiocese to lie and state falsely that he had such permission, when he doesn't? You do realise that the archdiocese merely gave a factual answer. There was no censure, no punishment. Merely fact.
Oh, and the Pontifical Commision Ecclesia Dei has NOTHING to do with these matters. They aren't even part of the CDWS. The only time you should write them in a dispute with a bishop is regards the application of Summorum Pontificum
Either the CDF or the CDWS would be the Roman office to contact if a bishop were to not adequately handle this situation. (I don't remember who has jurisdiction here, some things have changed recently...I am think of the possible invalidity of the Mass, and the act of simulation, as opposed to liturgical abuse as such, might be with the CDF)