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 Post subject: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:49 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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For the Office I use the Antiphonale Monasticum (1934 still printed by Solesmes). It has Prime, Lauds, Terce, Sext, None, Vespers and Compline

But I want to do Matins occasionally. Trouble is I cannot find a Nocturnale Monasticum according to the same (Benedictine) office. The Romanum one won´t do. Is there even such a book....something in the back of my head remembers when I was at the monastery there not being one book for the Night office.

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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:33 am 
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It's available in English translation:
http://www.andrewespress.com/matins.html

Don't know how good, bad, or indifferent it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:31 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Its Anglican...I wonder in what sense the would take away from praying with the Church? If I cannot find anything else...I guess if I were to do any part Anglice matins makes sense, since the Latin of some of the Father is difficult

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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:39 pm 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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Yes, I saw that it was Anglican ... and uses the KJV to boot! Whether one could say that one is praying with the Church by using it - couldn't say.

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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:19 pm 
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Curious, what is different/better about the Benedictine office?


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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:33 pm 
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Boso wrote:
Curious, what is different/better about the Benedictine office?

It wasn't revised in 1911, unlike the Roman Office.

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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:49 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Is it different/better than the pre-1911 Roman Office?


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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:55 pm 
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Boso wrote:
Is it different/better than the pre-1911 Roman Office?

I think it is slightly different.

As far as "better," I couldn't say - I don't know if the hymns in the monastic breviary were hacked and slashed like the ones in the Roman breviary.

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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:26 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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The hacking and slashing was in 1638...but the Benedictine office is better in my opinion. The post-1911 reforms backfired I think and disturbed the integrity of the Roman office. Besides the fact that I am familiar with the office from previous exposure and use, it is also advantageous in that it is still a current office used by Benedictines, and hence, unlike say the pre-1911 Roman office, still the current prayer of the Church

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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:35 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
it is still a current office used by Benedictines, and hence, unlike say the pre-1911 Roman office, still the current prayer of the Church


Oh, is it one of several offices that are current? It's not the only one, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:53 am 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
The hacking and slashing was in 1638

I knew it was some time around then but I did not know whether the Benedictine Office was affected.

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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:54 am 
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Boso wrote:
Oh, is it one of several offices that are current? It's not the only one, right?

No, it's not the only one. I think most Benedictines use the Liturgy of the Hours.

I am under the impression that Cistercians still use the older monastic office though they celebrate the Novus ordo Mass. I could be wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:47 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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Norcia, Solesmes (among the non-traditionalist monasteries) still use it, in fact Solesmes still publishes the regular 1934 Antiphonale

Unfortunately (in a way) they just completed the three volume antiphonale according to the new calendar (same "ordinary" though) so they will probably stop printing the 1934 one...though I don´t know, they print both now and Fontgobault, Barroux and their daughterhouses would still use it, as does Norcia. This might even mean they will print the pages they cut out after Vatican II (which are very annoyingly missing, like the calendar in front, even though the Saints are still put according to the old calendar in the back or the prayers before the office).

But they stopped publishing a lot of the other books before. For someone reason they had a heated and hard time updating the antiphonale.

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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:18 am 
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Each Benedictine and Cistercian monastery is independent, although the Benedictines have associations of monasteries that coordinate with each other, and the founding house of each Cistercian monastery has some oversight of it. Since they are independent, each is able to structure the Divine Office as it wishes. The fact that there is any uniformity is a tribute to their sense of history and identity, not because of any juridical requirement. The Cistercian monks of Genesee Abbey in NY publish a large psalter that they use in the Office. At Matins, they read from the Scripture and then from the Fathers and monastic sources - but I don't know how the readings are chosen and structured. You might consult them: www.geneseeabbey.org


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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:04 am 
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Prodigal Son of Thunder
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
Its Anglican

The translation is Anglican and was originally published by Anglicans, but it looks like the current publisher is "Western Orthodox" (i.e., Orthodox but using a Western Rite of Mass).

I just ordered it (I am most interested in readings, though) and I will let you know what I think of it (not that my opinion is worth much).

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 Post subject: Re: Need a liturgical book
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:34 pm 
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This might be of interest to you PED: http://www.monksonline.org/Liturgy.html

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