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 Post subject: Anglican Liturgy
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:46 pm 
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Jedi Master
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Greetings,

A friend of mine who lives in a larger city was looking for good liturgy. He did all the well done comtemporary liturgies that everyone in the Archdiocese bragged about. They acted out different reading, they added many other things. They did it well, but it was not really very catholic.

In his search, he then went to Latin Liturgies. But poorly done tridentine liturgy urked him as much as poorly done Novus Ordo liturgy. He was in a real quandry.

He then discovered a High Anglican Church. They had a choir that sang all the propers(some times in latin and some times in chanted english translation). They did all the music, all the reading, the incense, everything very well. They spend money on their liturgies and it shows.

We would argue about their priesthood not being valid, and that really bothered him. One day he brought me their hymnal and showed me their eucharistic hymns for when they were not singing the proper texts. He compared them to standard fare in catholic hymnals. Anglican theology of the Eucharist in their HYMNS was far superior to the catholic hymns.

How come the Eposcopalian bishops did what our bishops did not do in regards to the liturgy? How come people have to leave the catholic church to get a well done catholic(outwardly) mass? How come they are willing to put money in their liturgy and we are not?

Just venting.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:35 pm 
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Greetings,

One things the Anglicans have done is created an english translation of the Gradual. Here is a link to an English Translation of the 1974 Gradual. This could be used in parishes under the 'other hymns' provision, even though it is the exact same as the Roman Gradual but translated into English. The link has the entire Gradual, and it is FREE, so choirs can begin using it next weekend. Here is the Link:

http://anglicanhistory.org/music/gradual/gradual.pdf

peace

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:01 pm 
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As an Anglican, I can't imagine the answer to your questions. But I have wondered that myself. I do agree with you about the beauties of a well done Anglican Mass, esp. pre-1979 Prayer Book. But you also can find inadequate Anglican liturgies, easily enough.

As to Anglican orders, I have often discussed Apostolicae Curae with my RC friends. I try not to argue it; that implies I would want to change their opinions.

GKC

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:21 pm 
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Greetings,

You began by saying: As an Anglican....

Response: Please keep doing liturgy well. Perhaps catholics will finally get it.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:25 pm 
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Within the official Anglican Communion, perhaps it will survive as a showpiece. In the Traditional Anglican movment, it is thriving. As it does (mutatis mutandis) in the few Anglican Use parishes.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:56 pm 
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I love our liturgy!!!!!!!!!!

The High Anglicans really do a good job at them. We stick with the tradition, including latin and greek where appropriate and possible.

As well they stuff us SO full of liturgy at the university level that we get twitcy about it :). :cloud9:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:27 pm 
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There are also the Anglican Use parishes. They are Catholic but, by special permission, use a variation of the high Anglican service.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:58 am 
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dcheney wrote:
There are also the Anglican Use parishes. They are Catholic but, by special permission, use a variation of the high Anglican service.


The Book of Divine Worship, which is basically the 1928 ECUSA BCP, with the necessary changes.

Unfortunately, the Anglican Use parishes, formed under the Pastoral Provision, are few, and, for the most part, transitory in nature.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:15 pm 
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We can also pray for the formal completion of reconcilliation of the TAC and the Catholic Church.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:48 pm 
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I think one reason Anglicans (generally) do liturgy as well as they do is that it is really the only focus of unity they have. Use of the Prayer Book was about the only thing all Anglicans had in common, and perhaps it's not a coincidence that the decline of the Episcopal Church USA accelerated with the adoption of a Book of Common Prayer that represented a strong departure from the tradition.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:53 am 
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There's some truth in that conclusion, IMO. But even in the Good Old Days, the low church folk would be complaining about the smells and bells, or Benediction, or the Angelus, and so forth. Even on the days of 1928, there were more than Prayer Book Anglicans

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:09 am 
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Of course. But all that stuff was extra-BCP, and as long as you held to the BCP, you had your Anglican identity.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:18 am 
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Hence my first sentence. But even then, there were Anglicans for whom the BCP didn't exhaust their Anglican identity. And sure, when the liturgy became a playground for the revisionists, the import of lex orandi became obvious.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:24 am 
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I would go farther and say that there are those for whom the BCP was insufficient. I'm not sure it's a coincidence at all that the revisionists tended to come from the High-Church wing. (Not that I'm saying all High-Churchers are revisionists!)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:38 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I would go farther and say that there are those for whom the BCP was insufficient. I'm not sure it's a coincidence at all that the revisionists tended to come from the High-Church wing. (Not that I'm saying all High-Churchers are revisionists!)


Me too. Such as the Missal Anglicans. Mine is a partially Missal parish . But it was not merely that the liturgy was changed in form. It was that it was changed in content. And bad enough for stodgy Anglicans to be asked to change how they worshipped. When they noticed they were also being told to change what they worshipped, things happened.

GKC

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:53 pm 
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Quote:
The Book of Divine Worship, which is basically the 1928 ECUSA BCP, with the necessary changes.


It's the US 1979 BCP spliced with the Novus Ordo. (US 1979 has a thou-and-thee 'Rite I' option, as does the current Church of England book Common Worship, that a casual visitor might mistake for the old Prayer Book.) One can hope now that the Holy See has vindicated traditionalists by ordering pro multis rendered properly as 'for many' that this will be fixed in the AU. (The BCP old and new gets it right.)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:17 pm 
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Yeah, you're right.


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