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 Post subject: Symbolic Architecture
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:32 pm 
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Jedi Master
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Greetings,

One of my churches is in the traditional cruciform shape. It is fun to describe to people in church tours. The church is in the shape of a cross, but if you look at the outside plan of the church(the airplane view), it is in the shape of a giant KEY(connection to peter).

The symbolism is wonderful, but it is not good for liturgy. I have 3 different congregations: one in each wing and the main section of the church. They all sing at different paces, so being in the middle it is chaos often what I am hearing. Also, when I preach I am constantly trying to look in all directions.

Yes the symbolism is great, but the liturgy is made very difficult. Should we loose the symbolism of the architecture to make the liturgy better or the symbolism of the architecture to important?

peace

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 Post subject: Re: Symbolic Architecture
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:44 pm 
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TP wrote:
Greetings,

One of my churches is in the traditional cruciform shape. It is fun to describe to people in church tours. The church is in the shape of a cross, but if you look at the outside plan of the church(the airplane view), it is in the shape of a giant KEY(connection to peter).

The symbolism is wonderful, but it is not good for liturgy. I have 3 different congregations: one in each wing and the main section of the church. They all sing at different paces, so being in the middle it is chaos often what I am hearing. Also, when I preach I am constantly trying to look in all directions.

Yes the symbolism is great, but the liturgy is made very difficult. Should we loose the symbolism of the architecture to make the liturgy better or the symbolism of the architecture to important?

peace


You are probably down in the middle, on a raised platform, with congregation on three sides? If so, it would work better if you were where the original design intended you to be, then the symbolism would be complete and consistant.

but no battles, right? :wink:

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“therefore is my people led away captive, because they have not knowledge … therefore hath hell enlarged her mouth without any bounds” (Is 5:13-14).

But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved. (Mt 24:13)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:47 pm 
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I might be moving to the Indianapolis area. One of the churches I saw was this one:

http://www.olmc1.org/parish/fa_building.htm

Now - at first I screamed. I hate churches in the round. Then I blinked, looked at the compass.

The altar is facing east. Even though the priest is facing hte people, he is ad orientum!

Now, my question is - where's the tabernacle? Apparently they have perpetual adoration there (people sign up for all hours). This is quite an active parish, it seems. And the site is really orthodox, towing the party line.

So someone tell me why they built their church in a doggone circle?

The ad orientum thing is really interesting thing. Someone was thinkin' there...

Now - TP - with your problem. Is the cross-shaped church the one I visited? If so, part of the music issue would be solved by having a choir loft at the back of the church rather than right front. But then again, I'm not sure if that's the church you're talking about. Also, an organ does a lot to unify musical sound. If you got that repaired and ditched the piano, that would help, too.

Those shaped buildings were meant for an organ. Not a piano at the front.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:15 pm 
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Greetings

You said: You are probably down in the middle, on a raised platform, with congregation on three sides? If so, it would work better if you were where the original design intended you to be, then the symbolism would be complete and consistant.

Response: Actually, the church was finished in 1962, so the altar is exactly in front of the first line of Pews in the wings. It was the first free standing altar in our diocese, and it is a very large solid marble altar. The Ambo is moved way forward so there are people behind me when I read and preach. If it wasn't for the hideous lights, and the floor not doing to well, it could become a very nice place. When they built it is was a time for sound experimentation and they had speakers UNDER the pews. That didn't work.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:16 pm 
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sparkybrown wrote:
I might be moving to the Indianapolis area. One of the churches I saw was this one:

http://www.olmc1.org/parish/fa_building.htm

Now - at first I screamed. I hate churches in the round. Then I blinked, looked at the compass.

The altar is facing east. Even though the priest is facing hte people, he is ad orientum!

Now, my question is - where's the tabernacle? Apparently they have perpetual adoration there (people sign up for all hours). This is quite an active parish, it seems. And the site is really orthodox, towing the party line.

So someone tell me why they built their church in a doggone circle?



The Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem is round. It's a classic shape

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"You seek me", St. Augustine comments, "for the flesh, not for the spirit. How many seek Jesus for no other purpose than that He may do them good in this present life! [...] Scarcely ever is Jesus sought for Jesus' sake" (In Ioann. Evang, 25, 10).

“therefore is my people led away captive, because they have not knowledge … therefore hath hell enlarged her mouth without any bounds” (Is 5:13-14).

But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved. (Mt 24:13)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:35 pm 
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mgross wrote:
sparkybrown wrote:
I might be moving to the Indianapolis area. One of the churches I saw was this one:

http://www.olmc1.org/parish/fa_building.htm

Now - at first I screamed. I hate churches in the round. Then I blinked, looked at the compass.

The altar is facing east. Even though the priest is facing hte people, he is ad orientum!

Now, my question is - where's the tabernacle? Apparently they have perpetual adoration there (people sign up for all hours). This is quite an active parish, it seems. And the site is really orthodox, towing the party line.

So someone tell me why they built their church in a doggone circle?



The Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem is round. It's a classic shape


Oh, really? Is the altar setup like it is here...against one wall? Now granted, there would be an altar rail at the church of the holy sepulchre...but how do you find the tabernacle there? I'm hoping it's right where it should be, at the altar.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:10 am 
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mgross wrote:
sparkybrown wrote:
I might be moving to the Indianapolis area. One of the churches I saw was this one:

http://www.olmc1.org/parish/fa_building.htm

Now - at first I screamed. I hate churches in the round. Then I blinked, looked at the compass.

The altar is facing east. Even though the priest is facing hte people, he is ad orientum!

Now, my question is - where's the tabernacle? Apparently they have perpetual adoration there (people sign up for all hours). This is quite an active parish, it seems. And the site is really orthodox, towing the party line.

So someone tell me why they built their church in a doggone circle?



The Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem is round. It's a classic shape


Seemed rectagular to me. What gave you the impression it's round?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:25 am 
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The Church on Mount of the Beatitudes in Galilee is octagonal since there are eight beatitudes.

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:59 am 
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The only one I remember as round was the church in Capernaum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kape ... sia_ex.jpg

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:39 pm 
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anawim wrote:
mgross wrote:


The Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem is round. It's a classic shape


Seemed rectagular to me. What gave you the impression it's round?


Perhaps I was confusing the entire church with what they call the "Rotunda" which surrounds the Tomb of Christ:

Image

because of what you see when you look up:

Image


pictures are from the nice site of the Franciscan Custodians of the Holy Places

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"You seek me", St. Augustine comments, "for the flesh, not for the spirit. How many seek Jesus for no other purpose than that He may do them good in this present life! [...] Scarcely ever is Jesus sought for Jesus' sake" (In Ioann. Evang, 25, 10).

“therefore is my people led away captive, because they have not knowledge … therefore hath hell enlarged her mouth without any bounds” (Is 5:13-14).

But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved. (Mt 24:13)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:59 pm 
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My memory might be faulty, but I don't think the rotunda had any altars in it.

EDIT: Hmm...apparently, when I went there, the Franciscans said Mass at "Nailing of the Cross", rather than the Franciscan Chapel. Odd...

RE-EDIT: Never mind, according to Wikipedia, it's an altar that the "Roman Catholics have".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_ ... _Sepulchre

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