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 Post subject: Beginning & End of Lent & Triduum before Vatican II -- same?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:33 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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I know, I know...it's Advent we're coming up on. But I was researching something, and came upon this USCCB statement:

    When does the Triduum begin and end?
    The Easter Triduum begins with the evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper on Holy Thursday, reaches its high point in the Easter Vigil, and closes with Evening Prayer on Easter Sunday.

Was this the case before the reforms of Vatican II? Were Holy Thurs, Good Fri, & Holy Sat ever called a Triduum? If not, is there a name for those three days taken together?

This also got me wondering -- does Lent end on Holy Thurs or on Holy Sat, or? Before Vatican II was that the case?


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning & End of Lent & Triduum before Vatican II -- s
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:27 am 
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No significant change. This used to be called the Sacred Triduum: Maundy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy Saturday.

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 Post subject: Re: Beginning & End of Lent & Triduum before Vatican II -- s
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:41 am 
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Lent ends on Holy Thursday evening, when the Triduum begins.

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 Post subject: Re: Beginning & End of Lent & Triduum before Vatican II -- s
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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lbt wrote:
No significant change. This used to be called the Sacred Triduum: Maundy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy Saturday.


When did the change occur, and do you know why?


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning & End of Lent & Triduum before Vatican II -- s
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:45 pm 
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AdAltareDei wrote:
When did the change occur, and do you know why?


There are liturgy changes thanks to the Second Vatican Council. But words for Sacred Triduum, Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, and Holy Saturday remain the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Beginning & End of Lent & Triduum before Vatican II -- s
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:38 pm 
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AdAltareDei wrote:
This also got me wondering -- does Lent end on Holy Thurs or on Holy Sat, or? Before Vatican II was that the case?

Before Vatican II Lent ended at noon on Holy Saturday, even though the Easter Vigil had been moved to the evening by Pius XII.

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 Post subject: Re: Beginning & End of Lent & Triduum before Vatican II -- s
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:58 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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So does anyone know when the definition of "Sacred Triduum" changed? Pius XII in Maximus Redemptionis (1955) seems to define it as Thurs, Fri, & Sat of Holy Week, but my Latin's not that good, and I can't find a reliable English translation.


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 Post subject: Re: Beginning & End of Lent & Triduum before Vatican II -- s
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:24 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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It changed with Paul VI and the Novus Ordo. Hence there is no longer a Lent in the original sense of a 40 day fast. The Lenten fast was exactly 40 days. That is gone. And without the Triduum counting as part of Lent, we have 37 days excluding Sundays. Funny because Ash Weds and the days following were added to Lent in order to make the fast 40 days exact. If we really want to "restore" pre-medieval liturgy, there would be no Ash Weds, and like Milan we would start Lent on Sunday.


The historical Roman Rite has Septuagesima as well (today actually). Already violet and the all. was buried.

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 Post subject: Re: Beginning & End of Lent & Triduum before Vatican II -- s
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:33 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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lbt wrote:
No significant change. This used to be called the Sacred Triduum: Maundy Thursday, Good Friday and Holy Saturday.

I think it is quite a change if the Triduum used to include Christ's Passion and Burial only, and now also includes Resurrection.

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 Post subject: Re: Beginning & End of Lent & Triduum before Vatican II -- s
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:32 am 
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Ιασων wrote:
And without the Triduum counting as part of Lent, we have 37 days excluding Sundays.

Of course as a practical matter it makes little difference anyway, since fasting on the weekdays of Lent is no longer obligatory

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