Login Register

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 25 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:11 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:38 pm
Posts: 838
Religion: Roman Catholic
OK, there are different brands of Protestant but I am mostly speaking of those who either believe once-saved-always-saved or virtually believe it. Frankly, i think all or most Americans believe some version of that stupid heresy

here is one (randomly chosen from my memory banks)

James 2:14 which tells us that if a "christian" says to someone in need: Go, be warm and fed but doesn't do anything to actually help the person in his need, his faith is dead. "Faith without works is dead," that psg says

then there is 1 Cor 3:15 which speaks of how someone whose work for the Lord is not terribly.. um.. satisfactory (my words here) he will be saved "yet as through fire" The Catholics call that Purgatory of course

then there is the one .. Mt 18:23? that says the person who refuses to forgive (after he himself was forgiven by God) will be "turned over to the torturers" until the Debt (once forgiven by God) is paid "in full"

yeh... throw those @ the Protestants some time and see what you get.. probably a lot of stammering. And I will bet they don't even begin to accept it may be about Purgatory (or other Catholic teachings)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:05 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:36 am
Posts: 8464
Location: India
Religion: Catholic (Syro Malabar)
1) I think there's some theological diversity even within proponents of OSAS
2) Intelligent proponents of OSAS will have explanations for the verses you refer to. I'm not saying that these are the correct explanations, but it is important to keep in mind that they have come across these passages previously .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:40 pm 
Offline
Citizen
Citizen

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:53 pm
Posts: 334
Religion: Looking for answers
I think many who believe once-saved-always-saved don't appear to understand Matthew 25:31-46:

31 “But when the Son of Man[d] comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. 32 All the nations[e] will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters,[f] you were doing it to me!’

41 “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.[g] 42 For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

44 “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’

45 “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’

46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:22 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:38 pm
Posts: 838
Religion: Roman Catholic
Denise Dee wrote:
I think many who believe once-saved-always-saved don't appear to understand Matthew 25:31-46:

31 “But when the Son of Man[d] comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. 32 All the nations[e] will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters,[f] you were doing it to me!’

41 “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.[g] 42 For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

44 “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’

45 “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’

46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”

This is one of my favorite psgs and one i quote often

If one were to only know one psg, this one seems to be the one (although we don't want people only knowing one).

Yes, it is very clear: If we treat our fellow Christians shabbily.. we will end up in Hell. Jesus said that many of his followers will end up there (becasue they do not follow him in all ways)

We did mighty deeds in Your name (they will say)

and yet he says to them Depart from me all you evil doers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:06 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:38 pm
Posts: 838
Religion: Roman Catholic
I dont know off the top of my head where this psg is but the one where Jesus tells the ones he just healed to show themselves to the priest

so much for getting rid of the priesthood (as many protestants call for)--every man his own pope and all


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:08 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 80217
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
He was instructing them to follow a specific precept of the Mosaic law, not giving a general instruction.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:32 am 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:38 pm
Posts: 838
Religion: Roman Catholic
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
He was instructing them to follow a specific precept of the Mosaic law, not giving a general instruction.



noteworthy is that Jesus never said what Protestants seem to think he would say "Don't go show yourselves to the priest because now that I am here you don't need priests"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:33 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:38 pm
Posts: 838
Religion: Roman Catholic
if u follow Protestants' logic to its conclusion

you couldn't even call your biological father Father

but protestantism is not logical (to those of us who have studied such matters). Why is it important to be logical (one may ask) :)

well, Jesus did say He is the TRUTH (which would presumably imply LOGIC), the Way and the Life

"You shall know the TRUTH and the truth shall set you free" [emphasis added]

so yeh... I think we can make a case for Jesus kind of liking for us to appreciate logic as part of appreciating truth. Admittedly, not all adhere to this (what I just said). That is why the chaos loving liberals sometimes get votes


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:03 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:25 am
Posts: 4924
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Religion: Christian & Missionary Alliance
flyingaway wrote:
if u follow Protestants' logic to its conclusion

you couldn't even call your biological father Father

So since you are claiming that "Protestantism" logically entails that I can't refer to my dad as "Father," you're making the following case:

1. If Protestantism is true, one cannot refer to their biological father as "Father"
2. [Assumed for argument] Protestantism is true
3. Therefore, one cannot refer to their biological father as "Father"

I've done nothing special here except restate your assertion as a syllogism. The question, of course, is how you could possibly think (1) is true.

Can you demonstrate (1) is true?

(Hint: you can't, and you're "argument" is nothing but a bald, and frankly false, assertion. You would do well to retract your error.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:51 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:36 am
Posts: 8464
Location: India
Religion: Catholic (Syro Malabar)
theJack wrote:

(Hint: you can't, and you're your "argument" is nothing but a bald, and frankly false, assertion. You would do well to retract your error.)

FTFY


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:37 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:25 am
Posts: 4924
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Religion: Christian & Missionary Alliance
:crying: :crying: :crying:

https://youtu.be/8Gv0H-vPoDc


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:31 am 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 80217
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Blame autocorrect. Or gherkin.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:03 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:36 am
Posts: 8464
Location: India
Religion: Catholic (Syro Malabar)
theJack wrote:


:laughhard :laughhard :laughhard


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:05 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:37 pm
Posts: 6086
Location: Bergen, Norway
Religion: High Church Lutheran
Church Affiliations: Church of Norway
Jack3 wrote:
theJack wrote:

(Hint: you can't, and you're your "argument" is nothing but a bald, and frankly false, assertion. You would do well to retract your error.)

FTFY
It's not often you see the error go in that direction.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:25 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:38 pm
Posts: 838
Religion: Roman Catholic
the whole Old Testament

the only way you can possibly understand much less accept the OT is by being Catholic

ofcourse even the Catholic Church "ignores" certain bizarre psgs in the OT because they are just too confusing to most of us

And yet Jesus quoted from the OT so it is not like we can toss it out which a lot of non-Catholics do

or they throw it out for the most part, that is.. saving Genesis and maybe Psalms and a few others. But it is like building a house with no foundation...

salvation is from the Jews, Jesus said. So how can you found a Church without that foundation? (well, there is only one Church, but you know what I am saying...)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:10 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:25 am
Posts: 4924
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Religion: Christian & Missionary Alliance
:roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:08 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:38 pm
Posts: 838
Religion: Roman Catholic
the osas people cannot explain

Mt 18:23

where the forgiven-by-God person refuses in turn to forgive his fellow man.

Jesus says elsewhere that if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. So this guy in the parable is forgiven his ENTIRE debt by God himself.. then turns around and refuses to forgive a much smaller dept even tho his "brother" asks him to give him time to pay it back

so the guy LOSES the forgiveness given to him by God. Of course Jesus uses parables and the guy who forgives is a "master" but we know that means God..

so yeh, OSAS people have no explanation for this because they think once saved, you can do whatever you want and can't lose your salvation.. WRONG


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:34 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:35 pm
Posts: 977
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree Knights of Columbus
flyingaway wrote:
the whole Old Testament

the only way you can possibly understand much less accept the OT is by being Catholic



Or Jewish. It's kinda their thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:49 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:25 am
Posts: 4924
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Religion: Christian & Missionary Alliance
flyingaway wrote:
the osas people cannot explain

Mt 18:23

where the forgiven-by-God person refuses in turn to forgive his fellow man.

Jesus says elsewhere that if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. So this guy in the parable is forgiven his ENTIRE debt by God himself.. then turns around and refuses to forgive a much smaller dept even tho his "brother" asks him to give him time to pay it back

so the guy LOSES the forgiveness given to him by God. Of course Jesus uses parables and the guy who forgives is a "master" but we know that means God..

so yeh, OSAS people have no explanation for this because they think once saved, you can do whatever you want and can't lose your salvation.. WRONG

BrotherKnight wrote:
flyingaway wrote:
the whole Old Testament

the only way you can possibly understand much less accept the OT is by being Catholic



Or Jewish. It's kinda their thing.

:roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: name some "Catholic scriptures" Protestants don't "get"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:21 pm 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 80217
Location: 1.5532386636 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
You just roll your eyes back, young man. What if they got stuck that way?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 25 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


Jump to: