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commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!
http://forums.avemariaradio.net/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=169561
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Author:  Highlander [ Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

That's gonna pose a problem.

Author:  Closet Catholic [ Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

Highlander wrote:
That's gonna pose a problem.
Yes, he hasn't actually shown any willingness to prove his points up till now.

Author:  Highlander [ Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

Five stars for you. I assume you're not a native English or American-English speaker and you caught the nuance. I couldn't do it in Spanish.

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

Closet Catholic wrote:
Highlander wrote:
That's gonna pose a problem.
Yes, he hasn't actually shown any willingness to prove his points up till now.

Or even support them.

Quia Ego Sic Dico

Author:  Highlander [ Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

Exeo Carco Cum Nihil Pretii

You may refer to me as Doc Holliday.

Author:  flyingaway [ Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

if someone committed a mortal sin that many times in one day

he or she would not even WANT to get to heaven. That is the worst thing about sin, it makes you not even give a rip about holy things anymore. Sin is far more worse in its effects than some think. The word Sin has almost become.. archaic. But when you consider that one psg in the Old T: "God's eyes are too pure to look upon sin" well----

Author:  Closet Catholic [ Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

So in conclusion: you have absolutely no reading comprehension and no understanding of language.

Author:  flyingaway [ Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

if you committed adultery 20 times in one d ay

you would probably start getting bored w/ sex.. which may be the only good to come from it

Author:  Closet Catholic [ Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

So in conclusion: you have absolutely no reading comprehension and no understanding of language.

Author:  flyingaway [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

I can't believe people believe Luther over the Catholic Church, esp after reading this kind of baloney (that he actually did say)

Luther is called the Father of Protestantism

Jesus is the "father" of the True Church. Why do people follow a mere man over Jesus Christ who is God?

Well, most of them don't realize they are doing so.. right? I hope

Author:  theJack [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

Oh, sure, I understand completely. I understand that Jesus is the father of the Roman Catholic Church, that He has appointed the Pope as His Vicar, and that Luther was completely wrong in his assessment of things. I just like to side with the mere man and heretic Luther over Jesus for giggles. Obviously.

Author:  Closet Catholic [ Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

So in conclusion: you, flyingaway, have absolutely no reading comprehension and no understanding of language.

Author:  By His Mercy [ Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

Denise Dee wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I think you're doing some eisegesis here. I'm not agreeing with Denise; I just don't think the passages you're citing do what you want them to do.

What are you not agreeing with, Obi?

Catechism 1821
We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere "to the end" and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ. In hope, the Church prays for "all men to be saved."

How can you hope and pray for all to be saved if you believe that most Christians won't be saved?


Who was saying most Christians won't be saved?

Quote:

And if God is that harsh, how can you have much hope that he won't judge you as harshly as he judges the majority of Christians? How can such beliefs not cause deep despair which in itself is a sin, if I remember correctly?


Jesus, the Judge on judgment day, warned His own disciples about His return to judge. E.g., Mt 25:14-30. The Master gave His own slaves talents. Upon His return, he says to the slave who buried his talent "you wicked slave, you knew I reap where I didn't sow" and that slave gets thrown into the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

But again, this isn't saying MOST Christians won't be saved.

The devil has sown tares in with the wheat. The reapers asked if they could weed them out, but were told no...to leave them in until the future harvest. Mt 13:36-43. The tares will be thrown into the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

-BHM

Author:  Denise Dee [ Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

By His Mercy wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I think you're doing some eisegesis here. I'm not agreeing with Denise; I just don't think the passages you're citing do what you want them to do.

What are you not agreeing with, Obi?

Catechism 1821
We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere "to the end" and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ. In hope, the Church prays for "all men to be saved."

How can you hope and pray for all to be saved if you believe that most Christians won't be saved?


Who was saying most Christians won't be saved?

According to the OP, flyingaway (who has since flown away), Jesus said it. To which I posted this response

Denise Dee wrote:
flyingaway wrote:
anyway.. we Christians need to remind people that Jesus said FEW get to Heaven.. and of course if you read the New T carefully you see that He said few CHRISTIANS. I will try to find those passages


If you actually believe that few Christians get to heaven, you must be in constant fear and trembling that you might not be one of the few. Such a contradiction with the teachings of love, mercy, compassion. Can you imagine if all but a few people truly believed they were almost certainly going to hell for ever? Nobody would ever laugh or smile.

After which, Obi said he didn't agree with me.

Author:  By His Mercy [ Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

Denise Dee wrote:
After which, Obi said he didn't agree with me.


I'd say there's probably a lot of self-professed "Christians" who won't be saved. But I wouldn't say that about true Christians. Right?

-BHM

Author:  Obi-Wan Kenobi [ Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

Council of Trent, Session 6, Canon XVI.-If anyone says that he will for certain, with absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end,-unless he learned this by special revelation; let him be anathema.

Author:  Closet Catholic [ Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

By His Mercy wrote:
I'd say there's probably a lot of self-professed "Christians" who won't be saved. But I wouldn't say that about true Christians. Right?
As far as I know, the Catholic Church does not teach OSAS - once saved, always saved.

Author:  Denise Dee [ Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

By His Mercy wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
After which, Obi said he didn't agree with me.


I'd say there's probably a lot of self-professed "Christians" who won't be saved. But I wouldn't say that about true Christians. Right?

-BHM

BHM, your reasoning is a logical fallacy known as begging the question. Or is it a tautology? I'm not sure, it's either one or the other, or both.

Author:  By His Mercy [ Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

Closet Catholic wrote:
By His Mercy wrote:
I'd say there's probably a lot of self-professed "Christians" who won't be saved. But I wouldn't say that about true Christians. Right?
As far as I know, the Catholic Church does not teach OSAS - once saved, always saved.


I believe we teach "once elect always elect - and all of the elect will be saved". Election is outside of time...there are the elect and all of them will indeed be saved. None of them will lose eventual salvation.

Inside of time you can lose your justification by sinning gravely...sin still separates from God. But if we confess, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 Jn 1:9) because He is the propitiation (three verses later...2:2).

And God will ensure that all of the elect will be saved. For instance, the Lord disciplines us so that we won't be condemned along with the world (1 Cor 11:32). Meaning a 'once for all time imputed righteousness' doesn't seem to be there...since something else has to be done to keep one from being condemned along with the world. A once for all time election is true, but I just don't see a once for all time justification.

-BHM

Author:  By His Mercy [ Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: commit adultery 20 times in 1 day, still go 2 Heaven?!

Denise Dee wrote:
By His Mercy wrote:
Denise Dee wrote:
After which, Obi said he didn't agree with me.


I'd say there's probably a lot of self-professed "Christians" who won't be saved. But I wouldn't say that about true Christians. Right?

-BHM

BHM, your reasoning is a logical fallacy known as begging the question. Or is it a tautology? I'm not sure, it's either one or the other, or both.


I was just differing with any view that had true Christians not being saved. This assumes election, and of course perseverance which is given to the elect.

-BHM

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