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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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Quote:
Jesus is God but God is greater

How is this any less "obscure" and "ambiguous" than the doctrine of the Trinity?


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:54 pm 
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harmonicat wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Can you tell us, in your own words, what you believe about Jesus? What's His relationship to the Father? Is He human? Divine? Both (and, if so, how)?

BTW, I agree with theJack's main thesis here: you are not a Christian because you believe in a fictional construct, not the real thing.

Luke 6:37 doesn't mean what you seem to think it means either, but that's for another time. But you might want to reread 1 John.

Why are you and theJack so bent on condemning me? Neither of you have provided one verse that says one must believe Jesus is God to be saved. You can't do it because there are no verses that say one must believe Jesus is God. If the condemnation continues, I'll no longer participate.


If you want to understand the Trinitarian side of the argument, read the book.


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:56 pm 
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sss


Last edited by harmonicat on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:57 pm 
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sss


Last edited by harmonicat on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:58 pm 
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harmonicat wrote:
condemning

Image

A deduction is not a condemnation.

re: john 20:31, you are wrong twice over. The first is the meaning of the word "son," which render to be entirely vacuous--in your reading, you can take out the phrase, and it doesn't mean anything, certainly nothing substantial--and in the second place, even your own reading is inconsistent with your previous claim that to be saved you have to believe in the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. So which is it? Do you have to believe those things or believe that He is the Christ? Now you're just throwing things around with no thought as to what the author meant. And that, again, is the point. You seem more interested in what you believe rather than in what John meant. What do you think John meant by the term "Son of God"?

Put it this way, if for John "Son of God" refers to the divinity of Christ, then by John's standard, you are not a Christian. And just for fun, I'll up the ante just a hair. I said earlier that you are a polytheist, which you are. And therefore, you are actually an atheist. Since no atheists are Christian, you are not Christian.


Last edited by theJack on Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:59 pm 
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sss


Last edited by harmonicat on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Last edited by harmonicat on Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:25 pm 
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Jedi Master
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I am not surprised to see that harmonicat's sources (except for Tertullian, who is a law unto himself) are from the modern revisionist era of theology, in which everything possible was thrown under the bus. I'm not impressed by any of them.

I realize we heard a swan song, but I wanted to respond to that for the benefit of anyone reading along.


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:27 pm 
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Well, I guess by his own standard, he's just condemned himself, calling us "evil people" and all. ;)

I hope I didn't ruin your fun, Obi. Or break the object lesson. :-/


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:46 pm 
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Meanie.


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Unrelated, I just realized I posted the wrong image. I will leave it as exactly the kind of self-mockery that always manages to make my day. :cloud9:


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Go ahead. Make my day.


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:50 pm 
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Some Poor Bibliophile
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I more or less guessed the quotes were sort from the same trajectory.


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:20 pm 
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"Richard McBrien" was really all you needed to know.


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:21 pm 
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You've been trolled.

_________________
For the DCF Children Image


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:20 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
"Richard McBrien" was really all you needed to know.


That was the flag, yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:08 am 
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I am sad that hc didn't change his posts to "nm".


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:22 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
I am sad that hc didn't change his posts to "nm".


Perhaps he knew where that would go.


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:26 am 
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TX?


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 Post subject: Re: Trinity
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:05 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
TX?




:yes:


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