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 Post subject: Re: Peter or James as first leader after Christ
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:15 pm 
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If we look at what happened when in Acts 15, we see that James' decision is based on what Peter said. That is, James followed Peter's lead. So... who is the ultimate human authority at the Council of Jerusalem?


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 Post subject: Re: Peter or James as first leader after Christ
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:38 pm 
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Already, Peter had exercised his supreme authority in the upper room before Pentecost to have Judas’ place filled. At the first Apostolic Council of Jerusalem Peter settled the heated discussion over circumcising the gentiles and "the whole assembly fell silent" (Acts 15:7-12). Paul made sure that his ministry to the gentiles was recognized by Peter (Gal 1:I8).

Peter was singularly chosen by Christ to head His universal Church, and the primacy of Peter is shown clearly by Christ Himself:
All four promises to Peter alone
"You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church." (Mt 16:18)
"The gates of hell will not prevail against it."(Mt 16:18)
“I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven." ( Mt 16:19)
"Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven." (Mt 16:19)

Sole authority to Peter
"Strengthen your brethren." (Lk 22:32)
"Feed My sheep."(Jn 21:17).

The third successor of St Peter, Clement, wrote to the Catholics of Corinth in A.D. 95: "If any man should be disobedient unto the words spoken by God through us, let them understand that they will entangle themselves in no slight transgression and danger... Render obedience to the things written by us through the Holy Spirit." (I Clem. ad Cor. 59,1).


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 Post subject: Re: Peter or James as first leader after Christ
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:24 pm 
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Here's a very good synopsis of the importance of Peter in more than a few early church categories ...

https://www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstr ... the-papacy


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 Post subject: Re: Peter or James as first leader after Christ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:49 pm 
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Thank you, Essential Sacrifice.

It's interesting also that Arnold Lunn in Now I See, Sheed & Ward, 1955) could quote from the Anglican Vicar of Oddington, Rev S Herbert Scott, that St Peter and his successors were recognised as the supreme judges in matters of faith by a long succession of great Eastern saints, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Denys, Athanasius, Chrysostom, and others (p 218).

In his epistle to the Romans (around 110), St Ignatius of Antioch refers to the Church which, “presides in the land of the Romans” remarking that he could not command them the way Peter and Paul did – clearly referring to the leadership of Peter in Rome. (Reference in Catholicism And Fundamentalism, Karl Keating, Ignatius 1988, p 202-3).

Peter often spoke for the rest of the Apostles (Mt 19:27; Mk 8:29; Lk 12:41; Jn 6:69). The Apostles are sometimes referred to as "Peter and his companions" (Lk 9:32; Mk 16:7; Acts 2:37). Peter's name always heads the list of the Apostles (Mt 10:1-4; Mk 3:16-19; Lk 6:14-16; Acts 1:13). Finally, Peter's name is mentioned 191 times, which is more than all the rest of the Apostles combined (about 130 times).

After Peter, the most frequently mentioned Apostle is John, whose name appears 48 times. Peter is conspicuously involved in all the Church's important "firsts." Peter led the meeting which elected the first successor to an Apostle ( Acts 1:13-26). Peter preached the first sermon at Pentecost (Acts 2:14), and received the first converts (Acts 2:4 1). Peter performed the first miracle after Pentecost (Acts 3:6-7), inflicted the first punishment upon Ananias and Saphira (Acts 5:1-11), and excommunicated the first heretic Simon the magician (Acts 8:2 1).

Peter is the first Apostle to raise a person from the dead (Acts 9:36-4 1). Peter first received the revelation to admit Gentiles into the Church (Acts 10:9-16), and commanded that the first Gentile converts be baptized (Acts 10:44-48).

As Dr Warren H Carroll in A History of Christendom, The Foundation of Christendom Vol 1 testifies, in The Pontificate of St Peter, 30-67:
30-37 head of the Church in Jerusalem
42-49 first sojourn in Rome
49-50 in Jerusalem for the Apostolic Council
62-67 third sojourn in Rome; canonical Epistles of Peter; Mark with Peter in Rome
67 martyrdom in Rome and burial at the Vatican

We can know the true meaning of the Bible from the teaching authority of the Catholic Church, which has received from Jesus Christ the right and the duty to teach and to explain all that God has revealed.

"In these epistles there are certain things difficult to understand, which the unlearned and the unstable distort, just as they do the rest of the Scriptures also, to their own destruction." (II Peter 3:16)


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 Post subject: Re: Peter or James as first leader after Christ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:48 pm 
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Doom wrote:
However, one common objection to the idea that Peter and Paul 'founded' the Church in Rome is that there were already Christians there before either of them arrived, which is why St. Paul wrote to them. The rebuttal to this is to point out that is meant by 'founding a Church' in a particular city or region is not to put Christians there where there never were Christians before, but to establish a bishopric. There were Christians in Rome before Peter and Paul arrived, however, there was no 'Church' because there was no bishop.
Wouldn't they, at least technically, have been under the authority of some bishop (or apostle) outside Rome?


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 Post subject: Re: Peter or James as first leader after Christ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:53 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
One of the usual arguments for the primacy of St. James is that he speaks last at the Jerusalem Council. One Catholic way to look at this is that he was head of the opposition group and was acknowledging that he had been in the wrong.
Where, exactly, do we learn that he was in the opposition group?


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 Post subject: Re: Peter or James as first leader after Christ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:02 pm 
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http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08280a.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Peter or James as first leader after Christ
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:19 pm 
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None other than Adolph von Harnack supports the primacy of Peter as bishop of Rome.

About Pope Victor I’s declaration by edict, about the year 200, that any local Church that failed to conform with Rome was excluded from the union with the one Church by heresy, none other than the radical protestant Adolph von Harnack admitted that Victor I was “recognised, in his capacity of bishop of Rome, as the special guardian of the ‘common unity'.. " (See And On This Rock, p 118, 1987, Trinity Communications, Fr Stanley L Jaki).

Harnack asked: “How would Victor have ventured on such an edict – though indeed he had not the power of enforcing it in every case – unless the special prerogative of Rome to determine the conditions of the ‘common unity’ in the vital questions of faith had been an acknowledged and well-established fact?”

The apostles were a collegial community, under Peter. “By the end of the apostolic age, the bishops of the Catholic Church began meeting together on a regional basis, and with the first ecumenical council at Nicaea in 325, this co-operative activity reached worldwide proportions.” (Fr John A Hardon, S.J., The Catholic Catechism, Doubleday, 1975, p 320-321). The teaching of Ecumenical Councils has to be approved by Christ’s Supreme Vicar.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter or James as first leader after Christ
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:59 pm 
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Peter was married and they say Popes cannot be married. In Matthew 8:14-15 Jesus healed Peter's mother in law. “When Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his WIFE'S MOTHER laid, and sick of a fever.” and 1 Corinthians 9:5 “Have we not power to lead about a sister, a WIFE, as well as ... Cephas (Peter)?”

Peter would not allow men to bow down to him as he forbad Cornelius in Acts 10:25-26. “Cornelius met him, fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. Peter ... said stand up; I myself am a man.” The Pope likes men to bow down before them.

Peter rejected the “tradition from your fathers.” (1 Peter 1:18), yet the Catholic Church and Popes base their teachings on man's traditions.

Peter wore no crown as the Pope does.

Peter had no wealth as the Pope has: “Peter said, silver and gold have I none ...” Acts 3:6. Peter never ACTED like a Pope, never DRESSED like a Pope, never SPOKE like a Pope and people never APPROACHED him as a Pope.

Peter never took to himself the title “PONTIFIX MAXIMUS” as all the Popes willingly accept as seen by the initials P.M. after their names in the Vatican. This was a title of the pagan Roman Emperors from Julius Caesar's time on. It means “Chief Bridge Maker between earth and heaven.” This is a name of blasphemy for a man to take and Peter never saw himself as such. Jesus Christ is the only Bridge Maker between earth and heaven. (John 1:51)


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 Post subject: Re: Peter or James as first leader after Christ
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:26 pm 
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Quote:
Adino the Eznite Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:59 am
Peter was married and they say Popes cannot be married. In Matthew 8:14-15 Jesus healed Peter's mother in law. “When Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his WIFE'S MOTHER laid, and sick of a fever.” and 1 Corinthians 9:5 “Have we not power to lead about a sister, a WIFE, as well as ... Cephas (Peter)?”

See:
Priestly Celibacy Is Here to Stay – The History of Priestly Celibacy
Fr. Ray Ryland Ph.D.
http://www.cuf.org/2003/05/priestly-...stly-celibacy/
“St. Paul insisted that he had an equal right with the other apostles “to be accompanied by a wife [on his journeys]” (1 Cor. 9:5). The Greek word translated “wife” means “sister woman” or “sister wife.” The word does not refer to a wife in the ordinary sense. Rather, it refers to a woman who served the apostles, providing for them as they carried on their ministry. Scripture several times refers to the women who cared for Our Lord during his earthly ministry and even after His death.”

Quote:
Jesus Christ is the only Bridge Maker between earth and heaven. (John 1:51)

But the Lord of the Universe, Jesus, is totally ignored in establishing His Church and no other:
All four promises to Peter alone
"You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church." (Mt 16:18)
"The gates of hell will not prevail against it."(Mt 16:18)
“I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven." ( Mt 16:19)
"Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven." (Mt 16:19)

Sole authority to Peter
"Strengthen your brethren." (Lk 22:32)
"Feed My sheep."(Jn 21:17).

Substituted are selfist suppositions, misinterpretations, and the rejection of Christ and His Church, ignoring “if he refuse to hear even the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and the publican” (Mt 18:17).


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 Post subject: Re: Peter or James as first leader after Christ
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:57 pm 
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Thomist wrote:
Quote:
Adino the Eznite Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:59 am
Peter was married and they say Popes cannot be married. In Matthew 8:14-15 Jesus healed Peter's mother in law. “When Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his WIFE'S MOTHER laid, and sick of a fever.” and 1 Corinthians 9:5 “Have we not power to lead about a sister, a WIFE, as well as ... Cephas (Peter)?”

See:
Priestly Celibacy Is Here to Stay – The History of Priestly Celibacy
Fr. Ray Ryland Ph.D.
http://www.cuf.org/2003/05/priestly-...stly-celibacy/
“St. Paul insisted that he had an equal right with the other apostles “to be accompanied by a wife [on his journeys]” (1 Cor. 9:5). The Greek word translated “wife” means “sister woman” or “sister wife.” The word does not refer to a wife in the ordinary sense. Rather, it refers to a woman who served the apostles, providing for them as they carried on their ministry. Scripture several times refers to the women who cared for Our Lord during his earthly ministry and even after His death.”

Quote:
Jesus Christ is the only Bridge Maker between earth and heaven. (John 1:51)

But the Lord of the Universe, Jesus, is totally ignored in establishing His Church and no other:
All four promises to Peter alone
"You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church." (Mt 16:18)
"The gates of hell will not prevail against it."(Mt 16:18)
“I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven." ( Mt 16:19)
"Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven." (Mt 16:19)

Sole authority to Peter
"Strengthen your brethren." (Lk 22:32)
"Feed My sheep."(Jn 21:17).

Substituted are selfist suppositions, misinterpretations, and the rejection of Christ and His Church, ignoring “if he refuse to hear even the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and the publican” (Mt 18:17).


1 Cor. 9:5. Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

1). "a sister,"

2). "a wife."

3). "as well as other apostles,"

Here Paul is saying, Have we not the same right to be married as Peter, the Lords brethren, and the other apostles? We have consecrated to live continent for your sakes and yet we are criticized by you (V 3-6). This is decisive proof against celibacy of the clergy and the papal doctrine of having holy women minister to the needs of celibate ministers. Has the apostles permitted young women or wives of others to accompany them as personal servants instead of their own wives it would have produced continuous scandal.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter or James as first leader after Christ
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:24 pm 
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Quote:
Adino the Eznite Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:57 pm
1 Cor. 9:5. Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
Here Paul is saying, Have we not the same right to be married as Peter, the Lords brethren, and the other apostles? We have consecrated to live continent for your sakes and yet we are criticized by you (V 3-6). This is decisive proof against celibacy of the clergy and the papal doctrine of having holy women minister to the needs of celibate ministers. Has the apostles permitted young women or wives of others to accompany them as personal servants instead of their own wives it would have produced continuous scandal.
False.
1Cor 9:5 - Have we not power to lead about a sister, a woman*, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

[* In most English translations, the Greek word "gynikas" here is mistranslated as "wife" but there is no justification for it. Greek has no specific word for husband or wife and so uses the words "andros" and "gynikas" instead which mean "man" and "woman" respectively. It is only the context that can specify the marital meaning of the words.]

Is this verse talking about a wife? Not at all. If it were, it would be very peculiar. Every man was entitled to have a wife with him while he worked. It was the standard practice in the ancient world. What St. Paul was talking about was a woman charged with caring for his needs and that of his ministry. We see this during Our Lord's ministry.

If the apostles took women with them, the women “were not treated as wives but as sisters, to serve as interpreters with women whose duties kept them within their homes, and in order that, through these intermediaries, the doctrine of the Lord could penetrate the women’s quarters without the apostles being blamed or unjustly suspected by people of ill will.” (St. Clement of Alexandria)
…”Those women taken along by the apostles are not described by him as wives (even those who do not have wives still have the right to eat and drink), but simply as women who were at their service, just like those who followed the Lord.” (Tertullian)

“Even if, to prove that all the apostles had wives, he [Jovinian] would oppose to us, ‘Have we not the right to take a Christian woman or a wife around with us, like all the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?’ Let him add also what is found in the Greek codices: Have we not the right to take around with us sister-women? Thus it is proven that the Apostle was talking about the other holy women who, according to Judaic custom, assisted their masters with their goods, as was done, we can read, from the Lord himself…” (St. Jerome)

If women accompanied the apostles, “it was not in order to procreate children or to lead with them a common life but, in truth, to assist them with their goods, to take care of feeding the heralds of poverty.” [If Paul called them sister-women, it is] “because by the word sister he wanted to show that they were chaste, while describing their nature with the word women.” (Isidore of Pelusium)
See: http://tinyurl.com/mzuzxdt


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