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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:01 pm 
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Like I said, he doesn't care about the truth, only his pedantic misconceptions.

He wants to believe that intercessory praying is somehow circumventing God, let him.

He wants to believe that Paul was contradicting himself in the same letter, let him. It's clear that even Scripture itself is insufficient to persuade him.

He misrepresents Catholic teaching just like he misrepresents Scripture.

The point is that WE know what Paul was saying. We know that Paul was exhorting Timothy, and everyone who would read that letter, to imitate Christ's mediatorship and that by doing so we were glorifying God.


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:52 am 
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Adino the Eznite Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin OffPostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:36 pm
The truth is that Jesus is the Son of God, the Christ, and only by faith is His name, not prayers to Mary, not saying the rosary, not being a member of the rcc, can anyone have their sins forgiven and obtain eternal life (John 20:31).

Adino the Eznite Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:34 pm
God the Father is the head of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and therefore He should be the one directly addressed in prayer (1 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 3:14-16).

The self-indulgence of picking and choosing bits of Sacred Scripture always results in grave error – hence the thousands of sects all teaching something different.

Adino the Eznite fails because he doesn’t accept that:
1) The Christ wrote nothing
2) The Christ founded His Own Church on St Peter as the Sacred Scriptures confirm.
3) The Christ’s Catholic (universal) Church collected the writings of Her apostles and disciples and authorised a specific collection as the Sacred Scriptures -- as the Word of God.
4) Only She can teach with the Christ’s command to and through St Peter and His Successors: “Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” [Mt 16:19].


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:39 pm 
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Doom wrote:
Adino the Eznite wrote:


"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." -1 Timothy 2:5.

Jesus Himself said this;

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." -John 14:6.

Are these words bile and lies?


Speaking of lies, why do YOU lie by distorting what St. Paul said?

You intentionally left out the verse that comes right before 1 Timothy 2:5, and you did this because quoting 1 Timothy 2:1-4 would completely undermine your attempted interpretation.

What does St. Paul say in 1 Timothy 2:1-4?

He says
Quote:
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.


Did you get that? The statement 'for there is one mediator...' etc is NOT actually an isolated comment, it is in fact, the conclusion of a long chain of argument.

If St. Paul was attempting to say, as you are trying to claim, that it is useless to ask for the prayers of others, then WHY does he make the 'one mediator' comment ONLY AFTER talking about the need for 'petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving'?

When that verse is read IN CONTEXT, it becomes clear that what St. Paul is actually saying is that BECAUSE Christ is the 'one mediator', therefore, everyone else's mediation is MORE POWERFUL because it relies on the mediation of Christ. He is saying that because Christ is the 'one mediator' therefore EVERYONE ELSE can also act as a mediator because they can rely on the mediation of Christ.

In short, St Paul is really saying the exact opposite of what you're trying to make him say.

I ask again, why do you lie about what St. Paul said?


Where does Paul say ask Mary, pray to Mary for these things?

Jesus taught us in John 16:23-26, "In that day (when I go back to the Father), ye shall ask me nothing . . . . . Whatsoever ye shall ASK THE FATHER in my name, He will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ASK, AND YE SHALL RECIEVE, that your joy may be full. . . At that day ye shall ASK IN MY NAME."
God the Father is the head of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and therefore He should be the one directly addressed in prayer (1 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 3:14-16).


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:41 pm 
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cjg wrote:
Adino wrote:

Quote:
God the Father is the head of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and therefore He should be the one directly addressed in prayer (1 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 3:14-16).


John 10:30 : The Father & I are one.

Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. John 14:13.


Since Christ is now in Heaven with the Father, read John 16:23-26.

Jesus taught us in John 16:23-26, "In that day (when I go back to the Father), ye shall ask me nothing . . . . . Whatsoever ye shall ASK THE FATHER in my name, He will give it you.
Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ASK, AND YE SHALL RECIEVE, that your joy may be full. . . At that day ye shall ASK IN MY NAME."

God the Father is the head of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and therefore He should be the one directly addressed in prayer (1 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 3:14-16).


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:48 pm 
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Adino the Eznite wrote:
God the Father is the head of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and therefore He should be the one directly addressed in prayer (1 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 3:14-16).

Acts 7:59 As they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”*


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:06 pm 
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Linsou wrote:
Adino the Eznite wrote:
God the Father is the head of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and therefore He should be the one directly addressed in prayer (1 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 3:14-16).

Acts 7:59 As they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”*


"Acts 7:59, And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

First, . . . Stephen called upon "God," then he said, Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.

What a wonderful position and Spirit in which to die. Stephen died on his knees and without malice towards his murderers. Compare his prayer with Luke 23:34;

V. 34, Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

No mention of Mary anywhere?


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:11 pm 
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Adino the Eznite Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:06 am
No mention of Mary anywhere?

The status of the Blessed Virgin is very clear:
And [the angel Gabriel] came to [Mary] and said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!" But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God." (Luke 1:28-30).

Answer by Fr. John Echert on 04-11-2005 (EWTN):
“From the beginning of her existence and into eternally, Mary participates in the work of the Redemption of humanity. From the moment of her own conception she was preserved from original sin so that she would be a suitable mother to provide the humanity of the Incarnate Word, a model of perfection for all Christians thereafter, and the New Eve who would reverse the curse brought upon humanity by the sin of the first Eve and Adam. From womb to tomb she remained by her Son and beneath the Cross our Lord entrusted to her the entire Church, to be the spiritual Mother of all Christians. This is symbolized by the exchange of Mary and the Beloved Disciple as mother and son, as recorded in the Gospel of St. John. Mary continues as our spiritual Mother most especially through her work as our principal intercessor with her Son, when we turn to her in prayer. In fact, so closely is she linked with her Son in the work of Redemption that she deserves the title Co-Redemptrix, which signifies that she shares in the work of Redemption. Christ is the Source of all grace which He receives from His Father but Mary is the channel of grace by which we experience the effects of the grace of the Cross. Were we to say that there can be no mediators other than Christ we would have to eliminate the agency of all saints and angels, which have a lesser role but nevertheless can participate in the work of Redemption.” [My bold].
http://tinyurl.com/nvtc3tr

As Jesus got His humanity from Mary, how could she be not FULL OF GRACE?


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:00 pm 
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Adino the Eznite wrote:
Linsou wrote:
Adino the Eznite wrote:
God the Father is the head of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and therefore He should be the one directly addressed in prayer (1 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 3:14-16).

Acts 7:59 As they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”*


"Acts 7:59, And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

First, . . . Stephen called upon "God," then he said, Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.


Yes, as you indicate, the KJV? is one of a very few translations to phrase Acts 7:59 as you cited, however it does very clearly tell us that it is Jesus as our Lord, God, who is being addressed.

Quote:
New International Version
While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

New Living Translation
As they stoned him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

English Standard Version
And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

Berean Literal Bible
And as they were stoning Stephen, he was calling out and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

New American Standard Bible
They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!"

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And they were stoning Estephanos as he prayed and said, “Our Lord Yeshua, accept my spirit!”

http://biblehub.com/acts/7-59.htm


Last edited by Notnew on Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:02 pm 
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Adino the Eznite wrote:
Linsou wrote:
Adino the Eznite wrote:
God the Father is the head of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and therefore He should be the one directly addressed in prayer (1 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 3:14-16).

Acts 7:59 As they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”*


"Acts 7:59, And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

First, . . . Stephen called upon "God," then he said, Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.

What a wonderful position and Spirit in which to die. Stephen died on his knees and without malice towards his murderers. Compare his prayer with Luke 23:34;

V. 34, Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

No mention of Mary anywhere?

Mary was still alive on this earth, and at the foot of the cross, when Jesus prayed that prayer to His Father.

On another note - when I pray to Mary for her intercession, or to any other Saint, I ask it through Christ our Lord.


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:11 pm 
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Quote:
"“From the beginning of her existence and into eternally, Mary participates in the work of the Redemption of humanity. From the moment of her own conception she was preserved from original sin so that she would be a suitable mother to provide the humanity of the Incarnate Word, a model of perfection for all Christians thereafter, and the New Eve who would reverse the curse brought upon humanity by the sin of the first Eve and Adam."
.

Jesus Christ, by His death and resurrection reversed the curse brought upon humanity by the sin of Adam and Eve, not Mary.

After Jesus' death we find Mary mentioned only one more time. The book of Acts says that she joined the other disciples in an upper room for prayer on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 1.14). After that, Mary the Mother of Jesus disappears from scripture. The assumption of most biblical scholars is that she lived out her life in the company of the disciples and eventually died of old age. The Bible itself is silent as to Mary's life and death following her brief mention in Acts 1.


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:04 am 
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Quote:
Adino the Eznite Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:11 pm
After Jesus' death we find Mary mentioned only one more time. The book of Acts says that she joined the other disciples in an upper room for prayer on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 1.14). After that, Mary the Mother of Jesus disappears from scripture. The assumption of most biblical scholars is that she lived out her life in the company of the disciples and eventually died of old age. The Bible itself is silent as to Mary's life and death following her brief mention in Acts 1.

The reality is that Jesus gave us His Catholic Church, and She gave us the Sacred Scriptures which are part of Her teaching. She teaches infallibly, also, that Mary has been assumed into heaven – the dogma of the Assumption. There are three essentials: Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium.

The grotesque fallacy that produces so much error is that anyone can determine the fullness of truth without Christ’s Catholic Church.


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:03 pm 
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I have quit a a few friends in Mexico. Vacationed there on the coast a few weeks ago. Almost every household in that part of Mexico honors the sacred tradition by displaying Guadalupe in a prominent place. One of my friends said that she had decided to remove all of the statues and pictures of Guadalupe from her home. She said that her extended family reacted by demanding how she expects to gain favor and good fortune having done such an evil thing. She has experienced violent anger and a high degree of verbal abuse has followed ever since. She said it is terrible.


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:20 pm 
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Ec2 wrote:

Quote:
I have quit a a few friends in Mexico. Vacationed there on the coast a few weeks ago. Almost every household in that part of Mexico honors the sacred tradition by displaying Guadalupe in a prominent place. One of my friends said that she had decided to remove all of the statues and pictures of Guadalupe from her home. She said that her extended family reacted by demanding how she expects to gain favor and good fortune having done such an evil thing. She has experienced violent anger and a high degree of verbal abuse has followed ever since. She said it is terrible.


While I wouldn't condone violent anger or verbal abuse I can only imagine how disappointed & angry Jesus must feel at having someone dishonor His mother, presumably due to the influence of false sects.


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:30 am 
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EtcumSpiri22-0 wrote:
I have quit a a few friends in Mexico. Vacationed there on the coast a few weeks ago. Almost every household in that part of Mexico honors the sacred tradition by displaying Guadalupe in a prominent place. One of my friends said that she had decided to remove all of the statues and pictures of Guadalupe from her home. She said that her extended family reacted by demanding how she expects to gain favor and good fortune having done such an evil thing. She has experienced violent anger and a high degree of verbal abuse has followed ever since. She said it is terrible.


Sounds like while her friends have lots of pictures of the Blessed Virgin, they haven't taken Her into their homes.

Also, treating the image of Mother of God, or a Crucifix, or the Bible in a superstitious manner is not honoring the Sacred Tradition, nor is it Sacred. While a Catholic culture is a beautiful thing, a cultural Catholic is an offense to the Cross.


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:36 pm 
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Adino the Eznite wrote:
Quote:
"“From the beginning of her existence and into eternally, Mary participates in the work of the Redemption of humanity. From the moment of her own conception she was preserved from original sin so that she would be a suitable mother to provide the humanity of the Incarnate Word, a model of perfection for all Christians thereafter, and the New Eve who would reverse the curse brought upon humanity by the sin of the first Eve and Adam."
.

Jesus Christ, by His death and resurrection reversed the curse brought upon humanity by the sin of Adam and Eve, not Mary.

After Jesus' death we find Mary mentioned only one more time. The book of Acts says that she joined the other disciples in an upper room for prayer on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 1.14). After that, Mary the Mother of Jesus disappears from scripture. The assumption of most biblical scholars is that she lived out her life in the company of the disciples and eventually died of old age. The Bible itself is silent as to Mary's life and death following her brief mention in Acts 1.


This is the result of interpreting Scripture on your own. Adino the greatest Biblical scholar! Go start your own Church like every other denomination who interprets Scripture on their own. The obvious stinky fruit of private interpretation of Scripture is over 50,000 denominations. What's one more Adino?


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:11 pm 
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LuxHominumErat wrote:
Adino the Eznite wrote:
Quote:
"“From the beginning of her existence and into eternally, Mary participates in the work of the Redemption of humanity. From the moment of her own conception she was preserved from original sin so that she would be a suitable mother to provide the humanity of the Incarnate Word, a model of perfection for all Christians thereafter, and the New Eve who would reverse the curse brought upon humanity by the sin of the first Eve and Adam."
.

Jesus Christ, by His death and resurrection reversed the curse brought upon humanity by the sin of Adam and Eve, not Mary.

After Jesus' death we find Mary mentioned only one more time. The book of Acts says that she joined the other disciples in an upper room for prayer on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 1.14). After that, Mary the Mother of Jesus disappears from scripture. The assumption of most biblical scholars is that she lived out her life in the company of the disciples and eventually died of old age. The Bible itself is silent as to Mary's life and death following her brief mention in Acts 1.


This is the result of interpreting Scripture on your own. Adino the greatest Biblical scholar! Go start your own Church like every other denomination who interprets Scripture on their own. The obvious stinky fruit of private interpretation of Scripture is over 50,000 denominations. What's one more Adino?


Quote:
"Jesus Christ, by His death and resurrection reversed the curse brought upon humanity by the sin of Adam and Eve, not Mary.

After Jesus' death we find Mary mentioned only one more time. The book of Acts says that she joined the other disciples in an upper room for prayer on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 1.14). After that, Mary the Mother of Jesus disappears from scripture. The assumption of most biblical scholars is that she lived out her life in the company of the disciples and eventually died of old age. The Bible itself is silent as to Mary's life and death following her brief mention in Acts 1."
.

(Acts 1:13-14)
V. And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
V. 14, These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. . . . . . . . . (The last time Mary is mentioned in Scripture).

There it is again. The truth hurts does it? I don't need to interpret anything or start another church. I belong to the church of the living God, headed by Jesus Christ our Lord and saviour.

GALATIANS 4:16, I AM THEREFORE BECOME YOUR ENEMY, BECAUSE I TELL YOU THE TRUTH.
I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I won't pass it by, I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:14 pm 
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Adino the Eznite wrote:
I don't need to interpret anything or start another church. I belong to the church of the living God, headed by Jesus Christ our Lord and saviour.


You're Catholic? Why didn't you say so in the first place?


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:26 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
Adino the Eznite wrote:
I don't need to interpret anything or start another church. I belong to the church of the living God, headed by Jesus Christ our Lord and saviour.


You're Catholic? Why didn't you say so in the first place?


The Catholic church is headed by the Pope, and, No I'm not. I left the catholic church.

GALATIANS 4:16, I AM THEREFORE BECOME YOUR ENEMY, BECAUSE I TELL YOU THE TRUTH.
I'll be a fool for truth's sake. Truth is fallen in the street. I won't pass it by, I'll pick it up and embrace it regardless of the costs.


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:31 pm 
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The Catholic church is headed by Jesus Christ. The Pope is mearly His vicar (meaning "representative").


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 Post subject: Re: Praying to Mary vs praying to Jesus Spin Off
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:39 pm 
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Mrs. Timmy wrote:
The Catholic church is headed by Jesus Christ. The Pope is mearly His vicar (meaning "representative").


The pope is the vicar (substitute) of Christ on the earth, wielding universal power over the whole church according to the catechism.

"For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered." Pg. 234, #882
"The Roman Pontiff... as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful..." Pg. 235, #891

The Catholic church elevates the pope to the position of "supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful,"

God's Word reveals that someone else already fills that position, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are head of His Church.

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26.

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth..." John 16:13.

Jesus promised that this infallible teacher would abide with us forever:

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:16
The pope has clearly assumed a position reserved for the Holy Spirit of God. It is a position no man can fill:

"For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God." 1 Corinthians 2:11.

The Apostle Paul reiterates that the Holy Spirit of God, not a man, is the infallible teacher of all true Christians:

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man' s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth..." 1 Corinthians 2:12-13.


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